This guy must have a relative grading at PSA

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Posted By: dan mckee

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-SAM-CRAWFORD-THROWING-PSA-5_W0QQitemZ5233383197QQcategoryZ31718QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem

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Posted By: Nick

Is that a pair of tears I see in the upper right hand side border )one at the middle of the cap and one at th ebottom of the ear)?

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Posted By: Michael Peich

Dan--We saw better looking 206s in that tobacco/caramel lot at the Hunt Auction on Saturday, and we thought they were beaters! Groan, Mike

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Posted By: joe brennan

Hmmmmmmm....WIWAG ?

"I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

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Posted By: Anonymous

doubt it was wiwag material...that cert # is from last week.

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Posted By: David Vargha

WIWAG ?

My guess would be Wild Turkey.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: joe brennan

My guess would be Wild Turkey.

LOL....Maybe monday morning or Friday afternoon. but could be a 3 martini lunch.

"I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability" Ron White

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Posted By: jay behrens

For those of you that don't know, the whole WIWAG scandal center around modern cards. I am not aware of any vintage cards that were swapped out.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Texas Ted

Not to defend this card or the seller by any means, but it is possible that either or both the surface of the scanner or the plastic holder have dirt, smudges, flaws or some other issue that change the look of the card. I guess it would be hard to judge what it really looks like unless holding it in your hand. While I try to remember to clean the surface of my scanner periodically, dirt happens. I have also done scans only to discover later that a cat hair or something else was on the top loader, but made the card look different. In the interest of handling cards as little as possible, I do not remove from the top loader to make my scans. And of course, that is not possible with graded cards.

Texas Ted

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Posted By: John

LOL, Funny stuff "Uncle Joe is my T206 Crawford done yet?"

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Posted By: dan mckee

You are right Ted, probably the scanner. Look here, the scanner he used on this PSA 4 makes it look like there is paperloss on back. Darn scanners.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5233383377&ru=http://search.ebay.com:80/5233383377_W0QQfromZR40QQsojsZ1QQfviZ1

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

These anti-PSA (or anti-grading) posts are really getting boring. So in the countless thousands of cards they have graded they have made some mistakes, there's no news there. Yet every time someone sees one they feel obliged to post about it as if it is some great revelation. Why?

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Posted By: dan mckee

I will post what I like, if you don't like it, don't read it. Yawn that! Why? Because for being experts, they shouldn't be partial.

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Posted By: John

Peter;

If we could dig up one or two examples a month I would agree with you, but several a week or more. PSA 4’s and 5’s with paper loss, creases, rounded corners, dirt etc, that’s just not what you would expect from anybody who calls themselves the experts. Weren’t these guys invented to protect guys like me from buying a card described as VGEX that ends up having paper loss, from dirty dealers and other sellers?

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Posted By: Josh K.

I agree John - frankly, I kind of like reading these posts.

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

I respect people who choose not to grade their cards and I understand their reasons. I would hope they are consistent in that they do not submit them when they decide to sell them, but that is another topic altogether. More pertinently, it seems to me that if people were truly secure and comfortable in their decision they would not need to continually lash out bitterly at grading services. Noone is forcing anyone to accept grading or to buy graded cards, and I don't see people who prefer grading out there bashing overgraded or dubious raw cards with the same vengeance, if at all. By the way, Dan, what evidence do you have that this particular card is misgraded as a result of favoritism as opposed to mistake?

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Posted By: Anonymous

there's paper loss on the front too Danny.

edited to add:
Unless it's really a Walter Johson card.

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Posted By: Josh K.

I actually prefer grading. Still like these posts. Personally I think they serve a worthwhile purpose.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Peter, my point is that this seller has several cards blatantly over graded in my opinion. I do not consider the coincidences all mistakes. Could I be wrong? Hell yes, wouldn't be the first and won't be the last time. I bet if you took a poll here on this, the majority would agree with me. Any way, I must disagree with you. I hate slabbing but I slab the hell out of most of the ones I am selling and will continue to as long as there are people paying more for the stupid slabs. Hypocrit am I? I don't think so. If people are willing to pay more for a number assigned to a card than that is what I will give them.

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Posted By: John

Peter,

I absolutely hate grading companies yet tend to slab the few I sell, not because they offer a service I need, but that they have brain washed people into thinking that unless it has a slab its crap or con. I think of grading companies and selling like a dress code. I’d rather not wear a tie to the meeting if I had my choice, but I cant take a chance on looking bad in front of the client.

I stood my ground on this grading thing about 2 yrs ago; I sold of about 54 extras from my T206 set that I upgraded. I had very little ebay feedback 30+ or so none as a seller maybe 2+, and let them go in a lot un-graded. I had all sorts of people email me how do you know there real, are they trimmed etc. I couldn’t give them away, the ended up selling for $1500.


So now I know better and have learned I have to play the game when it comes to selling cards (must be graded). But just because they have pigeon holed me that way does not make me a hypocrite for not slabbing cards I have no intention of selling, if anything it makes me more a victim of circumstances.

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

Just my personal opinion of course, but it seems inconsistent on the one hand to disapprove of and affirmatively criticize grading services while at the same time using them to make more money on sales. I will leave the definition of words like "hypocrisy" to others.

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Posted By: dan mckee

I was too lazy to type all of what you did Peter, that is why I used the word towards myself. Seems perfectly logical to me. Feed the buyers! They pay for slabs, I will slab. Simple Math. John, that is a nice no-red Bresnahan portrait! how much? slab it and I will buy it!

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Posted By: John

Ahhhh Opinions


Isn’t at the end of the day everyone’s opinion anyway? I mean it’s the grading companies opinion on grade (1-10), its their opinion on price (SMR), it’s their opinion on population/scarcity (Pop Report). Before these guys it was the dealer/sellers opinion on (Grade, price, population/scarcity) which the transaction was made. It seems to me all we have done by creating these companies is out source this decision making process to a third party which seems to be just as un reliable as the people who use to do this before the advent of the grading companies I.E the dealer/seller.

So we still get inconsistent grading, false information and ridiculous prices, but now we have the luxury of paying $10 bucks a card for the privilege funny stuff.

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

I certainly agree with you John that grading is no panacea and that it has its own set of issues. My only original point was that I don't see every misgraded card as a newsworthy event the way others apparently do.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Only the seriously egregious errors gets pointed out, like Hinie Wagner being labeled as Honus, and other simple major mistakes that even a novice collector of pre-war cards should be able to spot.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: tbob

Besides the obvious ("if I had submitted that Johnson T205 I would have gotten a 2 at best") there is the problem that someone might buy a T205 Johnson PSA 4 back unseen, depending on PSA's published grading standards only to be terribly disappointed when they got a look at that back. Just asking for a little consistency...

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Posted By: dan mckee

Peter, if I posted all of the grading mistakes I see, I would expect you to be bored and I would be here all day. I posted the 2 in this thread to point out that this seller, or whoever submitted the cards he is selling, was shown favortism by the grading company. My opinion. Your exageration that I post every mistake I see is funny.

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Posted By: Texas Ted

RE:"You are right Ted, probably the scanner. Look here, the scanner he used on this PSA 4 makes it look like there is paperloss on back. Darn scanners."

Gee Dan, now you are getting personal. Who snapped your shower cap this morning? I was making a simple comment about the Crawford card that you provided the link to. I am not defending grading, this seller, or that card, but merely making an observation based on what I saw from the link. It is a bad scan, and if you have superman vision and can see more than I can, more power to you. No, I don't think a scanner would simulate paperloss. Your sarcasm towards me is not appreciated.

Texas Ted

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

Dan, I was not referring only to you in my observation that "people" seem to take a savage delight in posting PSA mistakes. It was a more general observation about the prevalence of these threads. Also Dan your original post was limited to the Crawford, and you only later mentioned the second card in response to Texas Ted's post about the scanner, so I think you may be engaged in some revisionism as to your purpose.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Good point Peter, that 2nd link was later added. Sorry Ted, I apologize, I just couldn't resist. You had me rolling with the scanner theory. Please forgive me. Nothing personal I assure you. Take care, dan.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Bob, you may be able to receive a 2 from that Johnson but I can guarantee you that I get a 1 on a good day!

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Posted By: WP

Dan,
Keep up the posts I enjoy them.

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Posted By: Rick

The nice thing about being a new guy vs an old timer is that I lack the comparison between the before and after of Graded cards.

It doesnt shock me to see over/under graded cards ...just part of the way it is.

hell it doesnt even shock me to see a couple of doctored cards...it happens.

the prices are crazy...but they have been for as long as i have been collecting...even raw cards have gotten more expensive.

I actually like the way things are now...i find this hobby to be amazing, so much knowledge to absorb ...so many cards to discover.

i am sure things will change again...i hope I try to change as well.