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  #1  
Old 12-02-2017, 08:46 AM
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Default Ty Cobb 1907 rare rookie postcards - Their origin stories told

Here is the story behind two of the rarest of Ty Cobb's 1907 rookie postcards. I'll start with what is the least well known of Cobb's 1907 postcards, the H.M. Taylor Wild Bill Donovan Floral Horseshoe Lafond version.

Floral-Horseshoe-front-Net-54-1.jpg


It depicts Donovan receiving a floral horseshoe during the September 30, 1907 Tigers game at Philadelphia when his Philadelphia fans presented him with this token of their appreciation. A youthfully exuberant Cobb is at the far right. The regular version does not contain "By permission of M.A. Lafond & Co...." overprint. So how did this Lafond version come to be and how was it distributed?

Lafond was a cigar store in Detroit. They advertised on the Bennett Park wall as shown below.

LaFond-Bennett-Park-Ad-Net54-6.jpg

The Lafonds were related by marriage to Wild Bill Donovan and as the October 23 edition of The Tobacco Leaf (a tobacco trade magazine) shows they displayed the Donovan Floral Horseshoe in their shop window in Detroit.

Tobacco-Leaf-page-croped-Net54.jpg

Tobacco-Leaf-page-article-Net54-5.jpg Window-Net54-3.jpg

The floral horseshoe game was September 30th and by October 5th the Horseshoe was on display at LaFonds as shown in the Detroit Free Press of October 6th.

Detroit_Free_Press_Sun__Oct_6__1907_-(1)-Net54-7.jpg

This October 11 LaFond ad in the Detroit Free Press shows the exhibition from the window was already gone.

DFP-10-11-07-windowNet54.jpg

This ad for the H.M. Taylor set was advertised in the October 16th Detroit Free Press.

DFP-10-16-17-HM-Taylor-Ad-Net54.jpg

Here is the front cover of the Detroit Free Press from October 6th when the Tigers clinched the A.L. pennant. It is the first use of this famous photo I can find and variations of the photo were used on numerous 1907 Tigers postcards.

DFP-10-6-07-front-pageNet-54.jpg

The earliest postmark I can find on any H.M. Taylor Tiger postcard is about October 10, 1907 when the World Series against the Cubs was being played. A shot of Chance in the Tigers dugout before the World Series commenced is a part of the set. Thus it stands to reason that the H.M. Taylor set was issued during the 1907 World Series and that the Lafond version of the Floral Horseshoe postcard was overprinted especially for the LaFond store and only distributed by them at their store the week of the display or for a short time afterward. This would explain extreme scarcity of this variation.

Now for the second half of the story. Look at the LaFond window image at the extreme right. We see what looks to be an uncut sheet of the 1907 Dietsche Tigers. Look closer, we can see the rare Fielding Cobb on the bottom row second from the left, but there is no Cobb batting version on the sheet. Remember, this was on display October 5th.

Tobacco-Leaf-page-Dietsche-cropNet-54-4.jpg

Here are October 6th Detroit Free Press ads showing the Dietsche poses, including the Cobb Fielding.

DFP-10-6-07-left-Net54.jpg DFP-10-6-07-right-Net54.jpg

Now look at these pages from the October 11th Detroit Free Press advertising the Dietsche set. The uncut sheet here shows the Cobb batting, but not Cobb Fielding. it stands to reason the Batting replaced the Fielding early in the print run, probably in a matter of a week. This would explain the relative scarcity of the Cobb Fielding as opposed to the Cobb Batting.

DFP-10-11-07-DietscheNet54.jpg

If anyone has any information to add about any of these rare 1907 Cobb postcards I'd love to hear from you!


Last edited by T206Jim; 12-02-2017 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:25 AM
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Great post!
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:46 AM
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It also states they sell full sets on a single sheet. I never seen one of them before. Has an uncut sheet ever been in a major auction ?
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:29 AM
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I had an uncut sheet of the images, on postcard stock, but I cannot remember if they had postcard backs, , that found its way to a major Cobb collector about 25 years ago. It was a 3 party deal, I did not have direct contact with the collector, sorry.
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:49 AM
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I've seen uncut sheets from the 1908 set ( this is a reprint sheet on ebay ), not 1907 or 1909.
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File Type: jpg dietsche poster.jpg (70.4 KB, 1557 views)
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Old 12-02-2017, 11:13 AM
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Fantastic stuff, Jim, as always.

That window display is amazing.

-Al
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Old 12-02-2017, 11:33 AM
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Jim: I see 15 postcards in the window display, seems like something is covering the lower right corner. What is it ? I wonder if their was another card that we can't see ( Cobb batting ??? ) We will only know for sure if someone produces this uncut sheet. The window display ( cobb fielding) and the offered sheet ( cobb batting) are different.
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Last edited by insidethewrapper; 12-02-2017 at 11:37 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-02-2017, 11:47 AM
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There are only 15 cards there, the bottom right spot is a white plug that probably contains written advertising. The Coughlin above it has white dirt showing which blends into the plug and gives the false impression the lower slot is covering part of the sheet.
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:25 PM
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Awesome research and a great post. Thank you for sharing it.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:11 PM
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Jim, if the whole Judge career thing doesn't work out, you can be my private investigator any time. Awesome research. I think you confirmed the long-standing suspicion that the Fielding came first and was quickly replaced by the Batting.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:22 PM
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Amazing research Jim!
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:25 PM
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Great info Jim. Really appreciate the post.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:28 PM
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Default H.M. Taylor Ty Cobb

Shameless leveraging of Jim's awesome research and post, I just listed an H.M. Taylor "Tyrus Cobb at Bat" postcard, PSA 3.5, for sale in the B/S/T section. Thanks, Jim!
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:50 PM
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Thanks guys, the Floral Horseshoe completed my H.M. Taylor set and this post was my way of celebrating. For me, half of fun of this hobby is acquiring knowledge and the other half is sharing it! Oh and Kris, when can I expect that commission check?
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:55 PM
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Great information!

Here is a related item I picked up on Ebay recently - an interior shot of the "Dietsche Rememberance Shop" on Woodward Avenue in Detroit...
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File Type: jpg s-l500.jpg (45.4 KB, 1071 views)
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:57 PM
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Orlando, it is funny how we sometimes just chance into a revelation. I was researching the LaFond version when I just happened to notice the Cobb Fielding in the corner, realized the significance of the dates, and thought this might just prove that long standing theory. Spread the news to the Cobb and Dietsche collectors out there.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:22 PM
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Here is a team display sheet. Unfortunately, not mine.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:44 PM
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Here are just a few notes that I have regarding the different Cobb "rookie cards." For reference, the World Series that year started on October 8 in Chicago and ended on October 12 in Detroit.

Detroit Seamless Postcard - of the six known examples, five are postmarked - three on October 4, 1907, one October 5 and one on October 7.

Wolverine Postcard - the earliest postmark from this set that I can find is October 9, 1907. Few of the postcards from this set found cancelled.

AC Dietsche - the earliest postmark from this set that I can find is October 9, 1907. Only a small percentage of postcards from this set are found cancelled.

HM Taylor Postcard - the earliest postmark from this set that I can find is October 7, 1907. Most of the postcards that I see from this set are canceled..

W600 - first offered to the public in the October 19, 1907 issue of the Sporting Life.

Last edited by Baseball Rarities; 04-04-2022 at 11:09 AM. Reason: To update dating on HM Taylor from Oct 10 to Oct 7.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:21 PM
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Now if someone has the 1909 Sheet ( if it exists) we will be able to determine if the Detroit Team Photo should or should not be part of the three year set or if it is in fact a stand alone postcard.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities View Post
Great info Jim. Really appreciate the post.
+1

Good info too on the postmarked dates of other early Cobb PCs Kevin. Thanks
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Old 12-03-2017, 06:15 AM
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Fantastic presentation jim!!! I was not familiar with the Lafond images those are so cool!!
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:01 AM
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Jim, fantastic work there.

Kevin, thanks for that info.
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:51 AM
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Great sleuthing, Jim. Thanks for the informative post

Kevin, thanks for the postmark information; you know where a lot of the bodies are buried in this hobby!

Here is my meager contribution
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File Type: jpg seamlesscobb1.jpg (77.3 KB, 993 views)
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:37 AM
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Great research, Jim. And thanks to all of the contributors in this thread. It is appreciated by all. And some day 50 yrs down the road maybe someone will Google this subject and find it here .

.
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
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Here is my meager contribution
Such a great postcard. Love the way that he has his bat in one hand and glove in the other. He is definitely ready to play ball.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
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Such a great postcard. Love the way that he has his bat in one hand and glove in the other. He is definitely ready to play ball.
@BeanTown

oh wait, this isn't Instagram.
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  #27  
Old 12-05-2017, 09:26 AM
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That Detroit Seamless card is beautiful.
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:58 PM
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It is apparent that the 1907 World Series, and the many popular Tiger sets it spawned, was a seminal event for baseball postcards of the Deadball Era. If Tiger mania hadn't swept Detroit that year would many of these sets, and many of the major sets (Rose, Novelty Cutlery, Sepia etc.) that followed followed in their wake in the next few years, even been issued?
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:01 PM
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Jim, there is also a jumbo sized postcard of the floral horseshoe postcard pictured in the first post (without the extra print line). I was told that only 2 were known to exist and that one of them was in a museum in Detroit. I can post a picture later.
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:45 PM
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Thank you for posting Jim. Wonder how many things are out there from 1905 and 1906 with Cobb. Glad to see all the known owners of Seamless Tube cards posted! Now its a party!

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Last edited by BeanTown; 12-05-2017 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:50 AM
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I'd love to see a picture of the jumbo floral horseshoe postcard!

Also, I saw that LOTG just sold a Tiger team RPPC with that pose postmarked September 8, 1907, so the team photo was from a little earlier than I thought.

JC, I'm glad to host the party, I just wish I belonged to that club!
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:53 AM
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Makes sense that the litho team postcards were produced after the real-photo one. Nice catch Jim.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:49 PM
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JC, I'm glad to host the party, I just wish I belonged to that club![/QUOTE]

Im with you Jim. There is hope we will both have a chance to acquire one in the future. 4 cards have been discovered over the last four years making the population 6 now. Hopefully 2018 will bring yet another new one to add to the low population.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:34 PM
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Jim,

Here is the Jumbo Floral Horseshoe postcard I mentioned earlier...


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Old 12-06-2017, 09:39 PM
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They must have had huge mailboxes in 1907.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:42 AM
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Terrific oversize floral horseshoe! What is the back story on it?
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:05 PM
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I can't see the oversized photo ! Now I see it. Great photo, thanks for posting. Love Detroit items.
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Last edited by insidethewrapper; 12-07-2017 at 01:06 PM. Reason: update
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Old 12-09-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
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They must have had huge mailboxes in 1907.
LOL. That is a great PC....
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:09 PM
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If anyone can find a type one of that photo I'm all in.
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Old 12-19-2017, 06:26 AM
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Kevin, for your list here is the earliest mention of the Dietsche set I can find. It is from October 2, 1907.

Dietsche-10-2-07-web.jpg
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Old 12-19-2017, 07:10 AM
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Great info Jim. Out of curiosity, what newspaper is that from?
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Old 12-19-2017, 07:25 AM
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That was from the Detroit Free Press, they had one other similar ad that day as well. It seems to imply Dietsche had a Tiger window set up similar to the one LaFond's had.

Dietsche-window-web.jpg

These were in essence classified ads on the front page.
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Old 12-19-2017, 03:52 PM
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I can't help but to imagine Jim's Judicial clerk reviewing microfiche at the library. "Looking for Judicial Clerk who can type 70 words a minute, write complex briefs, and research rare postcards. Accepting applications."
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Old 12-19-2017, 11:56 PM
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Application sent.
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Old 12-20-2017, 06:19 AM
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Jeff, you’re hired, but I don’t know how i’m Going to break the news to Al!
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Old 12-21-2017, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orly57 View Post
Jim, if the whole Judge career thing doesn't work out, you can be my private investigator any time. Awesome research. I think you confirmed the long-standing suspicion that the Fielding came first and was quickly replaced by the Batting.
+1!!! Great post, especially from the perspective of one who has both 1907 Dietsche Cobbs!

Thanks much,

Larry
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Old 12-21-2017, 01:29 PM
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I'm confused ! The ad in the Detroit Free Press states : " All the Detroit Stars in fielding positions " but the photo in the window shows many of the photos
( players ) in a batting position. Does this mean all the players with a batting pose have a variation like Cobb ( both fielding and batting ) ??
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Old 12-21-2017, 01:42 PM
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No, the Fielding/Batting dinstinction is a purely modern collecting construct. They meant the players are depicted in action.
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Old 12-21-2017, 01:46 PM
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Thanks Jim. I would never have thought fielding meant batting.
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:45 AM
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Here's the 1908 ad from November 3rd which mentions the updates to the set.
Edited to add: I found no ad whatsoever from 1909.

Detroit_Free_Press_Tue__Oct_13__1908_.jpg

Last edited by SAllen2556; 12-26-2017 at 10:56 PM.
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