BEST DEAL or BEST SCAM...

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Posted By: Lance

I was wondering if any board members took the plunge with this seller. I have kept an eye on all the auctions this person has run this week and can't believe the selling prices of the cards. The cards all have a disclosure similar to this:

Description:

I HAVE TO SELL CARD AS A REPRINT BECAUSE CARD IS NOT GRADED (AS THIS IS THE WAY I INTERPERTED EBAY RULES). CARD IS REALLY WRINKLED AND CREASED. THIS CAME FROM MY EX-HUSBANDS COLLECTION. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT YEAR THIS WAS PRODUCED. REMEMBER CARD IS NOT GRADED. BID AS A REPRINT PLEASE!!! THANK YOU. WINNER TO INCLUDE $3.50 SHIPPING!I COMBINE SHIPPING!! PLEASE WATCH FOR MORE CARDS UP FOR AUCTION SOON! THANKS AGAIN!

This particular auction was for a 1952 topps Mantle...$610.00!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320182946110&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

I couldn't force myself to jump in. The board seems to have an excellent eye and I would like to hear those insightful opinions on this. Did I miss the best deal or is the best scam ever on Ebay?

Lance

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Posted By: barrysloate

It does appear to be a reprint, although it's a terrible scan.

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Posted By: Lance

A few more of last night's auctions:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320182939672&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320182933237&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320182927230&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=011

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Posted By: Steve

Glad you held back on those finely aged counterfeits.

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Posted By: Anthony S.

So her ex-husband seemingly collected exclusively reprints. I think she's in for a big surprise if she ever has her engagement ring appraised.

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Posted By: Paul

The Caruthers is definitely a fake.

A good rule of thumb is as follows: If someone is selling a card "as a reprint," it is a reprint. Period. It is almost inconceivable that a seller -- no matter how ignorant -- would sell authentic cards worth in the thousands "as reprints." Why sell thousand dollar cards for pennies? The only explanation is that they are fake, and the seller is trying to get lucky and find a couple of bidders willing to take a gamble. This seller got lucky.

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Posted By: joe

I know I will look like a fool, but does anyone think there are people out there that don't know anything about cards? There are tons and tons of people that do not have the knowledge of collectors on this board. We are so into cards that we think averyone should know if there are fakes out there. This could actually be someone that has good cards and we are determining they are fakes based on a picture on a computer. The football cards actually look good to me. I have been collecting for over 30 years and have been stuck with 1 fake, that was on ebay. My infamous T205 Cobb sold to me by Texas dealer in San Antonio. This has been discussed may times on the board. Leon knows the seller.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

Look at it this way. She played dumb, knowingly selling reprints but staying vague about it. She listed 17 cards and came out $2000 ahead. Not bad for a few reprints. If they were real she could have invested 100 bucks in a scanner and a couple of hundred in grading fees, and she may have netted a couple of thousand dollars more.

Why do most of these people with reprints only have Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle and other stars? Wouldn't there also be a bunch of commons along with them? Why don't any of these people have scanners? Why do they have very low feedback and they are no longer around after a month or so?

Tired of the fakes

Rick

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Posted By: BeenThereRecentlyEnuff

No Joe, you do not look like a fool. But the question which a hobby newcomer should face is “what guidelines should I employ in order to not get ripped off, until I become sufficiently knowledgeable to make choices based on my own experience?” And pursuing all of the levels of seller stupidity and new buyer gullibility, is not productive with that objective.

The guidelines which I recommend for a relatively inexperienced pre-war card buyer includes:

-only buy PSA or SGC graded cards for all purchases of substance
-for all purchases, only buy from sellers with over 100 feedback and a 99.5% positive rating.

If a new collector lives by these two rules, he will reduce the likelihood of him getting scammed by 95+%.

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Posted By: 1880nonsports

and I thin Gil makes a few good points for the novice. I would also suggest that where the word "substance" is used - it should be noted that buying things of any real value should be predicated by an excercise of patience - there will be time to BUY things as you learn.....

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Posted By: davidcycleback

#1) The seller's full of sh*t ("I HAVE TO SELL CARD AS A REPRINT BECAUSE CARD IS NOT GRADED" -- There's no such eBay rule, and there's no rule that resembles this rule. Note that the cards were listed in eBay's vintage non-graded categories, categories which, by their very titles (Pre-1930 Non-graded, 1950s Non-graded, etc), show that eBay has no problem with people selling non-graded cards as vintage.)
#2) The Mantle and Baugh cards are each twice label as reprints
#3) Half the images are poor, badly focused.
#4) They're against eBay's listing rules, as the seller states she doesn't know what she's selling.

If a bidder still wants to bid $10,000 as if the cards are genuine, that's his problem.

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Posted By: Steve

I know, it's been said before...


For the new guys,
AFTER winning your questionable card, withhold payment, post auction here and you'll get an accurate assesment.
If the opinion is less than favorable, show the seller the link to the thread. You'll save yourself and the worse thing that can happen is finding a negative in your feedback.

Though I may have less than stellar feedback, this guideline has saved money and headaches.

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Posted By: John H.

If someone doesn't know anything about cards, they certainly won't know enough to claim that a card is a reprint. Non-collectors won't know that reprints even exist.

John

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I don't know anything about Ming vases, but I know not to buy one from a seller who uses blurry images and says "I'm not Chinese so eBay rules forces me to call this a reproduction."

If an eBay seller refers to a baseball card as a reprint, believe him. Trust me. Even if you suspect the seller doesn't know the difference between a real card and a reprint, why would you want to purchase a valuable card from someone who can't tell the difference between the real version and a reprint? Shouldn't you be dealing with sellers who can tell the difference?

If I was a newbie collector of Ming vases and an eBay seller said, "I know sh*t about vases, and I have no idea when this thing is from," do you think I'd say "Here's a seller I should purchasing my Ming vases from"?

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Posted By: dennis

david that is not only funny but true!

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Posted By: Bob

I am surprised at how crappy card collector's lawyers are: all the ex-wives seem to wind up with their cards!

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Posted By: Paul

There could probably be a listing under our "Detecting Card Alterations, Forgeries & Reprints" section about how to suss out suspicious ebay items. There could be actual text excerpts about warning signs to look for: all CAPS text, ex-husbands, and especially IM NOT SURE IF THIS IS A REPRINT, etc. Personally, I always wonder how someone who claims to know nothing at all about cards happens to know about reprints at all.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

This is an ago old scam sales technique used for centuries. The buyer sees this seller who "knows nothing about this expensive card" and thinks there's a rube involved in the sale. And the buyer is correct. There is a rube involved-- the buyer.

Also note that the buyer thinks he's pulling a fast one on someone who's ignorant, which means the buyer is less than honorable.

So the key to avoiding these types of auctions is to be honorable, because the honorable person who thought the cards were genuine would advise the seller to pull the auctions, get them graded and re-auction them to get fair value.