card saving inception dates?

[begsu1013]

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[Leon]

Scrapbooks have been used forever....mixed results obviously.

[bigtrain]

Not really sure. I was not an avid collector of cards before 1990 or so but I remember seeing a nice 1952 Topps Mantle at show around that time and it was in the first screwdown I had ever seen.

[vintagesportscollector]

In the '70s and '80s I was using 9 pocket pages in binders. I was pretty much doing the same thing with my coins and stamps at the time too. I don't recall penny sleeves and top loaders until the '90s.

[begsu1013]

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[begsu1013]

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[Howe’s Hunter]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i used the 9 pocket pages too.

ball park, when did those come out?

My mom got me a complete set of Topps for Christmas in 1984, and told me to either take it and the complete sets I'd left at home as a kid (1972-74), home with me or she was going to pitch them all. I found a binder that came with enough pages to put a compete set in in the JC Penney Christmas catalog right after that. So at least before Christmas, 1984.

[Pilot172000]

Along the same lines, but when did people start to actually pay for cards they didn't pick out of a pack of gum or pack of Cigs?

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i used the 9 pocket pages too.

ball park, when did those come out?

Going from the shoe box to a 9 pocket binder was was big time when I got some for Christmas in 89.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i remember the walmart wagner tour and the screwdown that thing was in!

???
The Wagner was graded already when Walmart had it.

[btcarfagno]

Penny sleeves were around by 1986/87 for sure. Top loaders maybe a year or two after that. Screw down holders were around by this time as well.

I also remember a short period of time in the early 1990's where someone had come out with a plastic holder that was supposed to take the place of the screwdown. This new holder had like a little snap at the bottom that would open it up. Seemed like a neat idea, but I don't think it was very good at keeping the card from moving around while it was inside.

The nine pocket pages I definitely remember n the early 1980's.

Remember these?



I think I got mine directly from Topps. It opened up and there were slots to put the cards inside in team order. Also came with stickers with the names of the teams. This thing was "it" in my life at the time. I had hit the big time when this bad boy arrived.

Tom C

[begsu1013]

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[ajquigs]

I used the pages my mom had for photos around 1979-80. She'd buy me 9 pocket pages when she ordered the various sizes she needed for her albums. I still have a good number of non-prime cards in pages from those days and the cards are well preserved. I'm pretty sure the pages were non-acidic, etc and maintain the cards nicely. The occasional sheet has puckered a bit, but most are fine.
The other protection devices from that time that I remember are screw downs and a version of a snap case. Both of those were worse for the cards than sheets, but dealers would often use them to highlight some of their more expensive cards.

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Remember these?



I think I got mine directly from Topps. It opened up and there were slots to put the cards inside in team order. Also came with stickers with the names of the teams. This thing was "it" in my life at the time. I had hit the big time when this bad boy arrived.

Tom C

I had this one. Same deal with team stickers that you put inside to categorize by team. For all intents and purposes, this was my bank vault for all of those valuable 1988 Topps cards.

[trdcrdkid]

Plastic pages were prevalent at shows by 1975, to judge by the pictures in SCD and the ads for the pages that were all over SCD then. Not sure when they were introduced specifically for baseball cards, but my guess is the early 70s. I'm sure i could pinpoint it more exactly if i triied. I remember around 1980 there was a big to-do in the hobby about how the PVC used in plastic pages up to that time could damage cards long term, and the shift to non-PVC pages (which have been standard since then.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

psa was not around in '88.

inconceivable that there mighta been 2 tours?

or walmart got the idea to buy that one after they saw the numbers that were brought in to see it?

Gretzky sold to Walmart in 1995. The card was graded in 1991. I have no idea about 1988. What are you saying happened in 1988, I thought it was in Copeland's private collection at that point, did it go on tour?

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Remember these?



I think I got mine directly from Topps. It opened up and there were slots to put the cards inside in team order. Also came with stickers with the names of the teams. This thing was "it" in my life at the time. I had hit the big time when this bad boy arrived.

We had those in the mid-to-late '70s.

[Mdmtx]

I got one of those boxes from an offer on a topps wrapper for my 1976 football cards

[glynparson]

Peter is correct in 1988 it was in Copeland's collection. Was on the Wal Mart tour for its eventual giveaway in 1995.

[steve B]

I bought the first 9 pocket pages I saw in 1974, there was a small binder with the team logos on it too. Really poor pages, almost no extra room, and while it was sideload two of the columns loaded right next to each other so the cards could slide out and get creased on the other card.

First screwdown I saw was a sample the local shop got. Very nice, plastic screws and an insert so the card didn't get clamped in the holder. Almost like a slab, but with screws.

The next were folded over lexan. Pinched the cards on one end, but they were pretty secure. There was a batch of fairly nice commercially made ones than later someone I think local to Boston did a lot of homemade ones that weren't all that nice.

One of the things I need to scan is the big "collection" of card storage supplies I have since I didn't get rid of any.

Steve B

[midmo]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Remember these?



Tom C

Nice. I had that locker too. Got mine directly from Topps in '80 or '81 I think. Most of my good cards were in pages/albums then. There were some type of individual sleeves back then because my local card shop had a huge corkboard wall behind the counter that he pinned cards to. Although he might have just cut pages up. The memory is a little foggy.

[begsu1013]

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[DHogan]

When I started collecting around 1990 or so, the were 9 pocket pages. They were not as good as todays Ultra Pro pages. The cards are all stuck solid in the pages now.

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by DHogan

When I started collecting around 1990 or so, the were 9 pocket pages. They were not as good as todays Ultra Pro pages. The cards are all stuck solid in the pages now.

This begs the question, how long will a PSA or SGC graded case last? Will the plastic do any harm to the cards?

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

was there a monumental sale of a wagner in 87/88? (not that all of them aren't)

1988 was when Jim Copeland bought the "Nr-Mt" Wagner (after Mastro trimmed it). He then sold it to Gretzky and McNall in 1991, at which time PSA graded it (the first card they ever graded). They then sold it to Wal-Mart in 1995, I think.

[Exhibitman]

We used various photo albums in the mid-1970s. There were albums with plastic pages that were pretty decent at protecting the cards. Not quite sure when the formal card pages came into use as I dropped out of the hobby from 1981 through 1988 or so. I know that by 1988 when I went to a show for the first time in years there were a ton of products.

[vintagesportscollector]

Here's my 'card locker' from the '70s. Just pulled it out of the attic . Still filled with a '74 Topps set, sorted by team.

IMG_0760.jpg

IMG_0761.jpg

[glchen]

I have one of those Sport Lockers too that I got in the 80s! I have a bunch of worthless 87 Topps inside!

I thought that top loaders were available around 1984 already? My "prized" 1984 Donruss Mattingly I purchased around that time in a card shop already in a top loader.

[glynparson]

bought many cards in those single piece of hard plastic open on three sides one curved edge. barely separated to slide card into. they also made them so they could stand up. many of the rookie cards i bought back then were in these types of holders

[begsu1013]

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[goudey1933]

1975 was the 1st year I remember 9 sleeve plastic pages.The toy store I bought my rack packs had them.Around 1977 I remember buying pages for t cards from a hobby paper.
scott

[ullmandds]

When I collected mid 70's-early 80's...I put the good stuff in 9 pocket plastic sheets in office type binders. The rest was in boxes.

At shows you'd see the really valuable cards in thick plastic tombs. I never owned one of those!!!!

I also must have missed the "revolution" in card protection while on a hiatus as when i returned in 89' or so...at which time my vintage collection was stored in top loaders eventually with penny sleeves as well.

[DHogan]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

This begs the question, how long will a PSA or SGC graded case last? Will the plastic do any harm to the cards?

The pages that I have my cards in them from 1990 to 1995. On some of the pages, there's a oily film on the inside of the plastic. So all is not lost.

[DixieBaseball]

I didn't take the time to read through this thread but for me during the 70's/80's, I used either 9 pocket binder pages or my personal favorite for rounding corners over time, The Ace Case. There was nothing quite like it when it came out. I put all my Willie, Mickey, and Hank's in these... Just enough room to slide around for all 4 corners, but they looked great in those Ace Cases! For every 6 months you kept a card in an Ace Case, you would gain a ding or two, thus hurting condition.

[Jantz]

I still have my card lockers like the one Tom posted from when I was a kid.

Here was another card locker that was manufactured in 1968. As far as I know there are five different versions.

[begsu1013]

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[oaks1912]

K & M Company in Torrance, California produced baseball card specific plastic sheets (PVC) around '73 or '74. They were sold separately and part of a package with a thin vinyl album that contained all of the Major League ball logos. The only size initially available was a 9 pocket sheet for standard sized cards. These were sold at toy stores, such as Toys R Us. Within a few years different designs and sizes were introduced by a few companies. ...Prior to these sheets, I used a 6 pocket vinyl sheet initially designed for Polaroid snapshots. These were sold at drug stores (either Walgreens or Woolworths)... Fortunately I removed my cards from these years ago. An unfortunate side effect is that these sheets probably destroyed more cards that they saved. During this same period photo albums with peel back plastic sheets (covering adhesive strips) were introduced for photos. Unfortunately this method of storage destroyed the value and condition of even more cards. While cards were very inexpensive in the 70's (compared to today), the storage methods introduced during this period were very destructive long term. It will be interesting to see how professionally graded cards hold up over time. After all, plastic is a petroleum product and tends to destabilize over time...

[Rookiemonster]

By the time I started collecting all this stuff already existed. But in 1992 I remember the first time I seen a penny sleeve in a top loader. I've never looked back lol.

[sycks22]

I remember a show in Raleigh a couple years back when this dealer had a beat up Banks rookie in the largest screw down case known to man. It even came with it's own zip up bag. I asked him about the price just for kicks, he said he'd let it go for $800 and assured me it was Banks rookie card. I got a good chuckle.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by oaks1912

K & M Company in Torrance, California produced baseball card specific plastic sheets (PVC) around '73 or '74. They were sold separately and part of a package with a thin vinyl album that contained all of the Major League ball logos. The only size initially available was a 9 pocket sheet for standard sized cards. These were sold at toy stores, such as Toys R Us. Within a few years different designs and sizes were introduced by a few companies. ...Prior to these sheets, I used a 6 pocket vinyl sheet initially designed for Polaroid snapshots. These were sold at drug stores (either Walgreens or Woolworths)... Fortunately I removed my cards from these years ago. An unfortunate side effect is that these sheets probably destroyed more cards that they saved. During this same period photo albums with peel back plastic sheets (covering adhesive strips) were introduced for photos. Unfortunately this method of storage destroyed the value and condition of even more cards. While cards were very inexpensive in the 70's (compared to today), the storage methods introduced during this period were very destructive long term. It will be interesting to see how professionally graded cards hold up over time. After all, plastic is a petroleum product and tends to destabilize over time...

That's the album I bought in 74.

The next generation of pages was done by a couple companies, primarily Rotman which was/is in Worcester Mass. They were a waterbed company that moved into making hobby pages right as the hobby page market get going and the waterbed market was shrinking.

Made from PVC just like the waterbeds only clear. Flexible PVC has an oily plasticizer to make it flexible, and that usually isn't good for the cards or whatever else is in there. Some get stuck, but are removeable since it's just the air having been squeezed out from between the card and page. Others got wrecked by the plasticizer leaching out and getting into the card or removing some of the ink. The lucky ones had the page dry out and become a bit brittle.

The albums that were really horrible were the "magnetic" photo albums with the diagonal sticky lines on the page. Stuff always got stuck and removing nearly always ends up with paper loss. It's far worse with thin paper items. I bought a whole album full of old car ads in one of those, and eventually sent it on it's way intact since I couldn't remove any of the ads. I'd heard that putting the whole thing in the freezer would help, but not with that one.

Steve B

[DHogan]

Originally Posted by steve B

That's the album I bought in 74.

The next generation of pages was done by a couple companies, primarily Rotman which was/is in Worcester Mass. They were a waterbed company that moved into making hobby pages right as the hobby page market get going and the waterbed market was shrinking.

Made from PVC just like the waterbeds only clear. Flexible PVC has an oily plasticizer to make it flexible, and that usually isn't good for the cards or whatever else is in there. Some get stuck, but are removeable since it's just the air having been squeezed out from between the card and page. Others got wrecked by the plasticizer leaching out and getting into the card or removing some of the ink. The lucky ones had the page dry out and become a bit brittle.

The albums that were really horrible were the "magnetic" photo albums with the diagonal sticky lines on the page. Stuff always got stuck and removing nearly always ends up with paper loss. It's far worse with thin paper items. I bought a whole album full of old car ads in one of those, and eventually sent it on it's way intact since I couldn't remove any of the ads. I'd heard that putting the whole thing in the freezer would help, but not with that one.

Steve B

Rotmans furniture is still going strong in Worcester. I'm not sure when they closed their sports card store.

[Leon]

The old (top loader) holders are often yellow, brittle and crack easily. I always change them out with the new holders with no pvc that will hurt the cards.

Originally Posted by steve B

That's the album I bought in 74.

The next generation of pages was done by a couple companies, primarily Rotman which was/is in Worcester Mass. They were a waterbed company that moved into making hobby pages right as the hobby page market get going and the waterbed market was shrinking.

Made from PVC just like the waterbeds only clear. Flexible PVC has an oily plasticizer to make it flexible, and that usually isn't good for the cards or whatever else is in there. Some get stuck, but are removeable since it's just the air having been squeezed out from between the card and page. Others got wrecked by the plasticizer leaching out and getting into the card or removing some of the ink. The lucky ones had the page dry out and become a bit brittle.

The albums that were really horrible were the "magnetic" photo albums with the diagonal sticky lines on the page. Stuff always got stuck and removing nearly always ends up with paper loss. It's far worse with thin paper items. I bought a whole album full of old car ads in one of those, and eventually sent it on it's way intact since I couldn't remove any of the ads. I'd heard that putting the whole thing in the freezer would help, but not with that one.

Steve B

[irv]

Does anyone use these for their Vintage or other era cards?

I want some for my 52 Topps cards and was hoping to pick some up at the recent Toronto card Expo but struck out.

I like the fact the card can't fall out and is reasonably secured inside with nothing pushing down on them.

I have my Mays and Mantle in cubes/blocks, on their side (no weight pushing down) and although they are fine (recently checked after 20yrs) I'd still like to get them out of those based on what I have read here about them.

I am looking for these or other best ideas o what you think I should store them in, other than getting them slabbed of course.
https://www.pro-mold.com/vintagecardcases.html

[PowderedH2O]

I had plastic sheets in the late 70's. In the early 80's I actually had 12 pocket sheets. Those didn't catch on, but the idea was that you could store them in scrapbooks and the sets would be thinner. I also had some Ace Cases. I think I bought them from Den's Collectors Den from the back of the Beckett guide. I was really excited to have them, but it wasn't long afterwards that I found them to be bulky and not exactly what I wanted.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I had no idea about the collectibility of cards in the mid 1970's, but I was placing my cards in Mason's Shoe Boxes in a very neat manner, so many years later, my 1974-78 cards were still pack fresh. I don't think it is unreasonable to think that a fair number of young lads from 1909-1941 might have done the same thing with their pre-war cards.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by irv

Does anyone use these for their Vintage or other era cards?

I want some for my 52 Topps cards and was hoping to pick some up at the recent Toronto card Expo but struck out.

I like the fact the card can't fall out and is reasonably secured inside with nothing pushing down on them.

I have my Mays and Mantle in cubes/blocks, on their side (no weight pushing down) and although they are fine (recently checked after 20yrs) I'd still like to get them out of those based on what I have read here about them.

I am looking for these or other best ideas o what you think I should store them in, other than getting them slabbed of course.
https://www.pro-mold.com/vintagecardcases.html

I've used a few of them. Mostly the really thick ones they make for modern stuff.

The plus side is that they're really solid and don't pinch the cards at all.
The downsides are that there's no cutout for the corners, which is always a tradeoff, a chance to ding the corners, but no risk of dings a bit in from the corner.
The other obvious problem is that there's no room for cards that are slightly oversize.

Steve B

[irv]

Originally Posted by steve B

I've used a few of them. Mostly the really thick ones they make for modern stuff.

The plus side is that they're really solid and don't pinch the cards at all.
The downsides are that there's no cutout for the corners, which is always a tradeoff, a chance to ding the corners, but no risk of dings a bit in from the corner.
The other obvious problem is that there's no room for cards that are slightly oversize.

Steve B

Thanks Steve.

Having recessed/cutout corners would be a plus for sure, and when you say they are really tight, I assume there would be no room for a plastic penny sleeve too?

Was really hoping these would work as I want to get my Mantle and Mays out of those cubes but don't necessarily want to store them in top loaders.

Found a few places on E-Bay that sells them and was about to order them up shortly but now you have me rethinking that?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-PROMOLD-...gAAOSwNSxVNsX~

[Vintagevault13]

Irv,

The Pro-Mold vintage holders actually do have corner cutouts so they are protected. I bought a couple of the holders but didn't care for them because the screw didn't close the case very tightly. I know you don't want to use toploaders, but IMO a penny sleeve/toploader/team bag combination for valuable cards is plenty safe if you decide not to go the graded route.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Vintagevault13

Irv,

The Pro-Mold vintage holders actually do have corner cutouts so they are protected. I bought a couple of the holders but didn't care for them because the screw didn't close the case very tightly. I know you don't want to use toploaders, but IMO a penny sleeve/toploader/team bag combination for valuable cards is plenty safe if you decide not to go the graded route.

Thanks for the info, Ed.

I assume the sleeve/top loader/team bags have specific sizes? I purchased all my top loaders years ago and if I recall correctly, they were all the same size back then?

I may go your route for my other cards instead of placing them all in the Pro Mold holders but I think I will order up a few anyways just to give them a try.

Glad to hear they do have corner cutouts, that will be a bonus.

Thanks again.

[Vintagevault13]

Originally Posted by irv

Thanks for the info, Ed.



I assume the sleeve/top loader/team bags have specific sizes? I purchased all my top loaders years ago and if I recall correctly, they were all the same size back then?



I may go your route for my other cards instead of placing them all in the Pro Mold holders but I think I will order up a few anyways just to give them a try.



Glad to hear they do have corner cutouts, that will be a bonus.



Thanks again.

Ultra Pro makes sleeves and toploaders specifically for Vintage (52-56) Topps cards. Search "Ultra Pro Vintage Toploaders" on eBay. They work great. A regular team bag will fit if you choose to use them.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Vintagevault13

Irv,

The Pro-Mold vintage holders actually do have corner cutouts so they are protected. I bought a couple of the holders but didn't care for them because the screw didn't close the case very tightly. I know you don't want to use toploaders, but IMO a penny sleeve/toploader/team bag combination for valuable cards is plenty safe if you decide not to go the graded route.

Good to know they changed them at some point. Obviously it's been a long time since I bought any.

I store most of my nicer cards in toploaders, with a penny sleeve if the card is nice enough. Without if it's already got soft corners.

I'm not really quick at changing, I think I've got cards still in nearly everything I've used since the early 80's. Including a big homemade screwdown holder I made for my one T3. (Probably one of the worst ones around, but fragile )

Steve B