Fair shake; calling out Kirk Keith

[Wite3]

see above...you made it between all of us when you posted on a public forum...would you like the definition of public?

[itslarry]

Originally Posted by JoeyF1981

sb- Im not even going to comment on this because what's done is done. Nobody got scammed or ripped off. Everyone has their money and at the end of the day its between me and them. If they have a issue then we can talk, but in all due respect its nobodys business, but me and the people Ive had any issue with. If it hasn't personally affected you then frankly it shouldnt matter unless you were doing business with me.

so wait, when it involves you its a private matter, but when you feel the need to call somone else (this mysterious Kirk) out its open season for public threads?

L@wrence Y0ung

[Wite3]

And just so you know...Sean is absolutely correct...if you took him to court the burden would be yours to prove what he said was not true...not the other way around.

[JoeyF1981]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

No, sorry Joey, this isn't Kirk's accusation. This is many people, over many forums, over many websites accusations. Kirk just happens to be at the forefront.

The burden is on you to prove otherwise and I'd hope others would agree with me.

S34N B4551K

sean- No this is kirk's accusations. The specific things he accused me of started from him. you obviously dont know the situation between me and him so unless you do dont make assumptions

[RCMcKenzie]

Joey,

From what I remember you are McKee's friend. Any friend of McKee's is a friend of mine. Good Luck collecting. Chris has an awesome Konetchy on bst for 1100 BIN.

[JoeyF1981]

Originally Posted by Wite3

see above...you made it between all of us when you posted on a public forum...would you like the definition of public?

no wite you made it about you when you commented. Did I ask for anyones comments? I specifically called out kirk keith..THATS IT. You decided to comment so YOU involved yourself. Nobody forced you to comment. Youre not kirk and I never did anything to you so dont sit here and act like its affecting you

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by JoeyF1981

no wite you made it about you when you commented. Did I ask for anyones comments? I specifically called out kirk keith..THATS IT. You decided to comment so YOU involved yourself. Nobody forced you to comment. Youre not kirk and I never did anything to you so dont sit here and act like its affecting you

You've offered before so how about you show me your paypal and bill me later logs? Apologizing and saying you are 'dumb' isn't a good enough excuse for losing thousands of dollars the way you did - I would deem that there is something more to it - prove me wrong. I would be more than happy to post a public apology and say I think nothing fishy is going on, if I in fact think nothing fishy is going on. I dealt with online intangible goods for years, where things like what you are doing are very common and many people get screwed. I call 100% bullshit on everything you say.

Edited for name:

S34N B4551K

[JoeyF1981]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

You've offered before so how about you show me your paypal and bill me later logs? Apologizing and saying you are 'dumb' isn't a good enough excuse for losing thousands of dollars the way you did - I would deem that there is something more to it - prove me wrong.

so what are you assuming then?

[Wite3]

How this affects me...

I read your original post because it was not specifically Kirk, you changed that.

It affects me because you have proven that you are not to be trusted (I actually thank you for that).

It affects me that people I have done business with and consider friends have been affected by you.

It affects me that I support this board...you have yet to post anything of note or interest concerning vintage cards.

I am done...just wanted to vent...you have proven yourself an idiot...not going to give you any more attention...troll

Joshua

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by JoeyF1981

so what are you assuming then?

I am calling you a liar, and you have yet to prove otherwise.

S34N B4551K

[JoeyF1981]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

You've offered before so how about you show me your paypal and bill me later logs? Apologizing and saying you are 'dumb' isn't a good enough excuse for losing thousands of dollars the way you did - I would deem that there is something more to it - prove me wrong. I would be more than happy to post a public apology and say I think nothing fishy is going on, if I in fact think nothing fishy is going on. I dealt with online intangible goods for years, where things like what you are doing are very common and many people get screwed. I call 100% bullshit on everything you say.

Edited for name:

S34N B4551K

ill show you my logs privately. Dont turn into kirk please.

[JoeyF1981]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I am calling you a liar, and you have yet to prove otherwise.

S34N B4551K

sean- personally you can call me a liar until your blue in the face. Did I ever do anything personally to you??? im not concerned what you think of me honestly

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by JoeyF1981

sean- personally you can call me a liar until your blue in the face. Did I ever do anything personally to you??? im not concerned what you think of me honestly

You don't have to do something to me personally for me to share my opinion that I think you are a liar do I? I will be happy to post on your behalf if it warrants it... Until then I digress.

[JoeyF1981]

Originally Posted by Wite3

How this affects me...

I read your original post because it was not specifically Kirk, you changed that.

It affects me because you have proven that you are not to be trusted (I actually thank you for that).

It affects me that people I have done business with and consider friends have been affected by you.

It affects me that I support this board...you have yet to post anything of note or interest concerning vintage cards.

I am done...just wanted to vent...you have proven yourself an idiot...not going to give you any more attention...troll

Joshua

BS! you didnt know anything about me until now. If it affected you so much why is this the first time youve made any comments about it?? Youre full of it and you just wanna be a drama queen

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by JoeyF1981

sb- Im not even going to comment on this because what's done is done. Nobody got scammed or ripped off. Everyone has their money and at the end of the day its between me and them. If they have a issue then we can talk, but in all due respect its nobodys business, but me and the people Ive had any issue with. If it hasn't personally affected you then frankly it shouldnt matter unless you were doing business with me.

Thanks for putting this thread into perspective.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

i still do not understand the name posting thing. every ones name is already on every post....right?

your name is not in the thread...but is is on the header of every thread you post. while it is definitely a rule i just question what the purpose of it is? what do you get by making people physically type their name in every time they post something?

and why would you want to spend your time policing this rule? i just don't see any purpose to it. wouldn't it make more sense to have people put their real name in the profile and be done with it. then there is no i forgots, no woops. and no policing stuff on hundreds of topics, thousands of posts etc.

kevin

No, I wasn't asking that you have to post your name in every post, technically, even though that might be what I said. The main thing is for anyone giving an opinion of someone or a company, or anyone getting into an argument etc.....to have the other party know who you are. I think it sucks when people make snide comments and give opinions of people or companies and those people or companies don't know who it is saying things about them. I knew this thread would be heated somewhat so that is why the rule was made for this thread. As I said before, I think everyone deserves a place to be able to fairly debate things. If any of our members don't like this then don't click on the thread. And this thread is here because I felt Joey deserved a place to air his issues with his accuser. The fact his accuser won't come here to debate and back up his stories, to me, means they might not be true accusations. So in that respect maybe Joey accomplished what he wanted to. On the other hand it seems Joey also has taken a lot of heat, most of it sounds like it is deserved. This thread will most likely be gone in a day or so and it's not the end of the world.

I did like the comment about him and Adrian doing a card deal...it could be a case of buyers AND sellers remorse. That was classic.

[bigfish]

Nevermind.

[bobbyw8469]

I am not going to pile on or throw stones, as that is just something I don't believe in. As one who himself has been falsely accused of stuff, I can understand the anger and need to want to clear one's name. My best advice is to go forward and be the best person you can be. The people who are convinced that you are a scoundrel, there is no changing their mind. Do some good transactions on Ebay, and ship as fast as you can. Give some people a break on cards even if you are losing money, and you know they are going to resell it and get all the profit. Pretty soon, you will get people to know that you aren't as bad as others make you out to be. You have to want to change from the inside though. Judging by your posts, you still have a lot of anger and hostility. Make a new forum name (by god, on the PSA boards, some people have more forum names & personalities than Sybil!) - but definitely change your attitude and actions!

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by JoeyF1981

no wite you made it about you when you commented. Did I ask for anyones comments? I specifically called out kirk keith..THATS IT. You decided to comment so YOU involved yourself. Nobody forced you to comment. Youre not kirk and I never did anything to you so dont sit here and act like its affecting you

If your not looking for anyone else to comment just PM the guy your looking for, don't make a public issue of it.

[kcohen]

This forum used to be such a nice place. I even miss the occasional political firefights and detours into rock music we had back in the day. With the proliferation of newer members, pointless multipage threads where many members take pleasure in petty attacks and piling on seem to prevail now.

Net54 has jumped the shark.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I think other than Joey and Kirk, I know more about this situation than anybody else on this board, so maybe I can shed some light on this. Joey has done some shady things. There is no doubt about that and he even admits it. But who here or anywhere else can say that Joey scammed them out of money? I’m not talking about a couple of bucks for return shipping or something like that – I am talking about serious money. Who here has lost money to Joey Farino? Anyone? No? Not one? I didn’t think so.

Joey may not be the kind of person you want to do business with and I don’t blame you for that. But he has never scammed anybody out of any money. Period! On the other hand, I have seen Kirk follow Joey around to at least 4 different message boards (including this one) and constantly make wild accusations that he can’t back up and stalk the guy. If Kirk could back up his accusations, he would have commented by now. It’s like he’s obsessed with Joey and won’t leave him alone. Come on, he texts the guy just to stalk him. How screwed up in the head is that? I told Joey to retain an attorney and take him to court and I hope he follows my advice.

This is not the first time Kirk has been accused of doing something like this. Below is a thread on CU from less than a month ago that Kirk started about Joey, and another CU member named Danny spoke up and accused Kirk of the same thing (harassment). How did Kirk respond? Well, he didn’t. Crickets! Just like this thread. Just read post #8 in the thread below. That should tell you a lot about Kirk’s character.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...81&STARTPAGE=1

Edited for spelling

[frankbmd]

Joey was right.

My PM box is full this morning or inquiries from jealous Net54 members.
As a public service to the Board I am posting the following link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Shiny-M...e/140654916665

BE LIKE FRANK. JUST DO IT.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by kcohen

This forum used to be such a nice place. I even miss the occasional political firefights and detours into rock music we had back in the day. With the proliferation of newer members, pointless multipage threads where many members take pleasure in petty attacks and piling on seem to prevail now.

Net54 has jumped the shark.

+1

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by kcohen

This forum used to be such a nice place. I even miss the occasional political firefights and detours into rock music we had back in the day. With the proliferation of newer members, pointless multipage threads where many members take pleasure in petty attacks and piling on seem to prevail now.

Net54 has jumped the shark.

hmmmmmm, are we aloud to "debate" about politics? And Talk about who the best rock bands are???

Now that would be interesting, way better than this Jersey Shore thread.

[mcadams]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think other than Joey and Kirk, I know more about this situation than anybody else on this board, so maybe I can shed some light on this. Joey has done some shady things. There is no doubt about that and he even admits it. But who here or anywhere else can say that Joey scammed them out of money? I’m not talking about a couple of bucks for return shipping or something like that – I am talking about serious money. Who here has lost money to Joey Farino? Anyone? No? Not one? I didn’t think so.

Joey may not be the kind of person you want to do business with and I don’t blame you for that. But he has never scammed anybody out of any money. Period! On the other hand, I have seen Kirk follow Joey around to at least 4 different message boards (including this one) and constantly make wild accusations that he can’t back up and stalk the guy. If Kirk could back up his accusations, he would have commented by now. It’s like he’s obsessed with Joey and won’t leave him alone. Come on, he texts the guy just to stalk him. How screwed up in the head is that? I told Joey to retain an attorney and take him to court and I hope he follows my advice.

This is not the first time Kirk has been accused of doing something like this. Below is a thread on CU from less than a month ago that Kirk started about Joey, and another CU member named Danny spoke up and accused Kirk of the same thing (harassment). How did Kirk respond? Well, he didn’t. Crickets! Just like this thread. Just read post #8 in the thread below. That should tell you a lot about Kirk’s character.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...81&STARTPAGE=1

Edited for spelling

David- We don't know each other, but I've read plenty of your posts here over the years. I was very surprised to read your comments above where you practically turn the situation around, as if Kirk is the bad guy.

Joey has admitted that he frequently sells cards on ebay and then back outs of the transaction. Even worse, he's also admitted that he wins auctions on ebay and doesn't pay. People are now aware of Joey's BS, and so now Joey creates new usernames every few weeks/months so that people don't know who he is.

Kirk proactively lets people know when he's identified Joey posing under a new alias on Ebay or on CU BST, so that people can avoid him. But you have the gall to insinuate that Kirk is somehow the bad guy here? That's not harassment, that is Kirk protecting his friends on CU from getting into a transaction with a known scam artist. People like Kirk are good for the hobby, not vice versa.

I realize Joey is likely not happy about the fact that Kirk frequently alerts people to Joey's new aliases. For example, when Joey came to CU under the alias YankeesFan74 and tried to sell his now infamous T206 Ty Cobb Red Portrait 3 weeks ago, it was Kirk that let several people there know that YankeesFan74 was really Joey. Good for Kirk.... because we all know that Joey just takes payment for the Cobb card, he never actually mails it to anyone after they've paid.

If I were Kirk, I wouldn't reply to this thread either. Everyone at CU already knows his character and appreciates what he does for the hobby. No need to answer to "call-outs" from people who change their name every few weeks.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I think other than Joey and Kirk, I know more about this situation than anybody else on this board, so maybe I can shed some light on this. Joey has done some shady things. There is no doubt about that and he even admits it. But who here or anywhere else can say that Joey scammed them out of money? I’m not talking about a couple of bucks for return shipping or something like that – I am talking about serious money. Who here has lost money to Joey Farino? Anyone? No? Not one? I didn’t think so.


Edited for spelling

No, he just borrows their money for a while pretending to sell them a card he either does or does not have.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Joey was right.

As a public service to the Board I am posting the following link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Shiny-M...e/140654916665

Frank, thanks for the link but I already own several pair. -- Paul

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by mcadams

David- We don't know each other, but I've read plenty of your posts here over the years. I was very surprised to read your comments above where you practically turn the situation around, as if Kirk is the bad guy.

Joey has admitted that he frequently sells cards on ebay and then back outs of the transaction. Even worse, he's also admitted that he wins auctions on ebay and doesn't pay. People are now aware of Joey's BS, and so now Joey creates new usernames every few weeks/months so that people don't know who he is.

Kirk proactively lets people know when he's identified Joey posing under a new alias on Ebay or on CU BST, so that people can avoid him. But you have the gall to insinuate that Kirk is somehow the bad guy here? That's not harassment, that is Kirk protecting his friends on CU from getting into a transaction with a known scam artist. People like Kirk are good for the hobby, not vice versa.

I realize Joey is likely not happy about the fact that Kirk frequently alerts people to Joey's new aliases. For example, when Joey came to CU under the alias YankeesFan74 and tried to sell his now infamous T206 Ty Cobb Red Portrait 3 weeks ago, it was Kirk that let several people there know that YankeesFan74 was really Joey. Good for Kirk.... because we all know that Joey just takes payment for the Cobb card, he never actually mails it to anyone after they've paid.

If I were Kirk, I wouldn't reply to this thread either. Everyone at CU already knows his character and appreciates what he does for the hobby. No need to answer to "call-outs" from people who change their name every few weeks.

Michael,

Joey did all those things. He's not denying that. So simply don't do business with him. But he never scammed anybody out of money as Kirk (and now you) has stated.

You're trying to make Kirk out as some crusader. He's not. Anybody that sends texts to another to harrass them is a cyber stalker. It's that simple and it's against the law.

Just one question for you? Why did Kirk do the same thing to Danny? What did Danny do to deserve it? Once again, that says a lot about Kirk's character.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

No, he just borrows their money for a while pretending to sell them a card he either does or does not have.

Yup and that's wrong. Nobody has denied that. How long can you beat a dead horse? Isn't cyber stalking wrong too though?

[Peter_Spaeth]

If in fact Joey is "borrowing" money from people under the false pretenses of selling them a nonexistent card that is pretty close to scamming them in my book.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by kcohen

This forum used to be such a nice place. I even miss the occasional political firefights and detours into rock music we had back in the day. With the proliferation of newer members, pointless multipage threads where many members take pleasure in petty attacks and piling on seem to prevail now.

Net54 has jumped the shark.

+2

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Leon

No, I wasn't asking that you have to post your name in every post, technically, even though that might be what I said. The main thing is for anyone giving an opinion of someone or a company, or anyone getting into an argument etc.....to have the other party know who you are. I think it sucks when people make snide comments and give opinions of people or companies and those people or companies don't know who it is saying things about them. I knew this thread would be heated somewhat so that is why the rule was made for this thread. As I said before, I think everyone deserves a place to be able to fairly debate things. If any of our members don't like this then don't click on the thread. And this thread is here because I felt Joey deserved a place to air his issues with his accuser. The fact his accuser won't come here to debate and back up his stories, to me, means they might not be true accusations. So in that respect maybe Joey accomplished what he wanted to. On the other hand it seems Joey also has taken a lot of heat, most of it sounds like it is deserved. This thread will most likely be gone in a day or so and it's not the end of the world.

I did like the comment about him and Adrian doing a card deal...it could be a case of buyers AND sellers remorse. That was classic.

i totally understand, but your reply does not really address what i am saying.

my entire point is, it is far easier to police someones personal profile during sign up to make sure there name is there, which automatically goes on every post, rather than trying to police every discussion and every post on the entire sitem, and getting everyone to follow a rule which is based entirely on the circumstances of the thread...right?

not only that, the rule itself leaves room for interpretation about what should and should not be considered hot, heated, snide or whatever other words you want to call it when adding a name is required. you had to premptively step in and remind everyone of the rule, that ultimately shouldn't need to exist if you enforced it at sign up.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by kcohen

This forum used to be such a nice place. I even miss the occasional political firefights and detours into rock music we had back in the day. With the proliferation of newer members, pointless multipage threads where many members take pleasure in petty attacks and piling on seem to prevail now.

Net54 has jumped the shark.

+3

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yup and that's wrong. Nobody has denied that. How long can you beat a dead horse? Isn't cyber stalking wrong too though?

The horse hasn't been dead that long...this activity was taking place only a month ago. Don't come on our board complaining about cyber stalking and that your transgressions are all in the past and apologized for when the past is only a few weeks ago.

If Joey is going to take Kurt to court then just do it. His past makes him a huge target here, and when his past is only a month ago it's fair game to beat that "dead horse".

[oldjudge]

Kenny-I couldn't agree more. While in the short term this type of thread may increase the site's page views, it will lead to the departure of the very people who can add knowledge of vintage cards to this forum.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

i totally understand, but your reply does not really address what i am saying.

my entire point is, it is far easier to police someones personal profile during sign up to make sure there name is there, which automatically goes on every post, rather than trying to police every discussion and every post on the entire sitem, and getting everyone to follow a rule which is based entirely on the circumstances of the thread...right?

not only that, the rule itself leaves room for interpretation about what should and should not be considered hot, heated, snide or whatever other words you want to call it when adding a name is required. you had to premptively step in and remind everyone of the rule, that ultimately shouldn't need to exist if you enforced it at sign up.

A lot of people DON'T want their full name on a forum. That is the reason it isn't mandated at sign up. As long as they stick to just talking about cards, and general hobby topics, their names won't be required. I believe, right or wrong, that makes for a better and more active forum.

And as for the folks that don't like this thread, it is your prerogative to voice your opinion, just like everyone else. My tongue is bleeding from biting it so much though.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by kcohen

This forum used to be such a nice place. I even miss the occasional political firefights and detours into rock music we had back in the day. With the proliferation of newer members, pointless multipage threads where many members take pleasure in petty attacks and piling on seem to prevail now.

Net54 has jumped the shark.

I don't believe that to be true...Popcorn threads do tend to get the most action when they pop up, but if you look at the front page how many of those types of threads are there? I see a whole lot of card threads there. Occasionally we get a poster that seems to dominate the discussion and lately we've had a few of them, but they'll burn out....they always do.

And don't forget every time you post to a thread you don't like you've bumped it to the top of the board.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

The horse hasn't been dead that long...this activity was taking place only a month ago. Don't come on our board complaining about cyber stalking and that your transgressions are all in the past and apologized for when the past is only a few weeks ago.

If Joey is going to take Kurt to court then just do it. His past makes him a huge target here, and when his past is only a month ago it's fair game to beat that "dead horse".

Joey's activity is unethical. Nobody is denying that and I'm not making excuses for it. However, Keith's is criminal. There is a huge difference between the two.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Joey's activity is unethical. Nobody is denying that and I'm not making excuses for it. However, Keith's is criminal. There is a huge difference between the two.

I know nothing of Kirk Keith, but it's hard for me to have any sympathy for Joey Farino with all the unethical activity. I don't read the CU boards so I'm not involved in any of this and the only time I even recall Joey Farino's name was when he had his dust up with Dan McKee. Joey is the one who brought the CU drama onto Net54, he is my only concern here.

[btkpath]

I guess one of the issues here that I am having a hard time getting my head around is how Joey feels completely absolved of any wrong doing because he has returned all moneys to those who thought they were purchasing cards.

I would submit that a "sale" is premised on a buyer viewing more value (or importance, etc.) in a piece of merchandise than the "value" of the money it took to purchase the merchandise. By returning the money, a seller is, in fact returning to the buyer something that the buyer considers to be of lesser value.

To view the merchandise, and the money needed to purchase the merchandise, as equivalent, may be a reasonable solution to a seller, but could certainly make a buyer feel inadequately compensated and resentful.

Joey, I am sorry that you feel like you need to exonerate yourself and clear your name on this board due to interactions that you have had with Kirk (whoever that might be) in the past, but it seems to me that if you spent half the time "cleaning up" your side of the business that you DO have control of, you might not have as many issues down the road.

Just my $0.02.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by kcohen

This forum used to be such a nice place. I even miss the occasional political firefights and detours into rock music we had back in the day. With the proliferation of newer members, pointless multipage threads where many members take pleasure in petty attacks and piling on seem to prevail now.

Net54 has jumped the shark.

I remember when I first came here people said the same thing when Marshall Barkman would go off. Now whenever a "where are they now" thread pops up people miss him. Everything evolves. I'll admit that Joey is truly in a lose-lose situation here. If he says nothing this mystical Kirk can continue bad mouthing him unabated, but in reality Joey has already tarnished his own reputation in many people's eyes so his case is falling on deaf ears. You reap what you sow.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I remember when I first came here people said the same thing when Marshall Barkman would go off. Now whenever a "where are they now" thread pops up people miss him. Everything evolves. I'll admit that Joey is truly in a lose-lose situation here. If he says nothing this mystical Kirk can continue bad mouthing him unabated, but in reality Joey has already tarnished his own reputation in many people's eyes so his case is falling on deaf ears. You reap what you sow.

People always seem to remember the "Good ol' days" as better than the present...it's like people who believe the US was idyllic in the 1950s. When I first got here many years ago memorabilia threads would make the board go nuts with fighting...the political threads were much more poisonous than anything this board has experienced...and who can forget the good old days of Bruce D wishing to read my obituary??

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by btkpath

I guess one of the issues here that I am having a hard time getting my head around is how Joey feels completely absolved of any wrong doing because he has returned all moneys to those who thought they were purchasing cards.

Question I have...Did Joey return all the money each time...or was Paypal involved to help return the money?
There is a difference.

[btcarfagno]

I feel like a need a shower. And the last 30 minutes of my life back.

Tom C

[Exhibitman]

I like applesauce.

[JoeyF1981]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Question I have...Did Joey return all the money each time...or was Paypal involved to help return the money?
There is a difference.

I returned the money every time myself.

[JoeyF1981]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I remember when I first came here people said the same thing when Marshall Barkman would go off. Now whenever a "where are they now" thread pops up people miss him. Everything evolves. I'll admit that Joey is truly in a lose-lose situation here. If he says nothing this mystical Kirk can continue bad mouthing him unabated, but in reality Joey has already tarnished his own reputation in many people's eyes so his case is falling on deaf ears. You reap what you sow.

youre very right and I realize kirk does not have the balls to come on here and address these issues because he knows he has nothing to back these accusations up with. I know and accept that my reputation is tarnished with alot of people. Ive done alot of wrong and Ive also done alot of right. Ive sold tons of cards and had alot of successful transactions on ebay and with forum members

[steve B]

Did someone say they missed rock and politics?

NSFW. Really. And not for while the kids are around either. That should tell you if you'll be offended. If so, probably best to not watch.

But if it's rock and politics you want......Have at it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7rpVRnuAcQ


Steve Birmingham

[CobbvLajoie1910]

.......where have you gone Pet-er C, Net54 turns its lonely eyes to you. Woohoohooo.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by btkpath

I guess one of the issues here that I am having a hard time getting my head around is how Joey feels completely absolved of any wrong doing because he has returned all moneys to those who thought they were purchasing cards.

I would submit that a "sale" is premised on a buyer viewing more value (or importance, etc.) in a piece of merchandise than the "value" of the money it took to purchase the merchandise. By returning the money, a seller is, in fact returning to the buyer something that the buyer considers to be of lesser value.

To view the merchandise, and the money needed to purchase the merchandise, as equivalent, may be a reasonable solution to a seller, but could certainly make a buyer feel inadequately compensated and resentful.

Joey, I am sorry that you feel like you need to exonerate yourself and clear your name on this board due to interactions that you have had with Kirk (whoever that might be) in the past, but it seems to me that if you spent half the time "cleaning up" your side of the business that you DO have control of, you might not have as many issues down the road.

Just my $0.02.

Those are the words of an intelligent man, couldn't have said it better myself.