Leon's E98 Mack in the new pickup thread. Why stains are a good thing.

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Posted By: robert a

The stains on the back of the mack don't look like caramel stains, but do look like some kind of lozenge or hard candy stains.

I've seen these types of stains before on this issue and also orange stains, but never seen the typical caramel stains found on E95/E96

I've mentioned this before here, but I think Leon's E98 Mack illustrates the point pretty well. It's likely E98s came with different kinds of candy.

Anybody noticed other stains on E98s?

Rob

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Posted By: leon

Nice observation. There are still a few candy issues with mystery surrounding them and this is one of them. Some day I hope we find many of the different caramel cards actual packaging...and as a bonus maybe some of the candy/cards inside!!

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Posted By: S Gross

It's kind of odd, at least to me, that there hasn't been found an unopened candy/caramel container. Every once in a while an unopened tobacco container shows up, why not candy ???? Yes a 90 year old caramel is going be pretty funky, but so are 90 old cigarettes.

Just the other day I had to pull out my heavy coat (nights are getting a bit chilly in Savannah, and my Northerner blood has thinned a bit ). I reached into my pocket and pulled out a York Peppermint, I must have put there last Winter. Now 9 months isn't 9 decades, but Grandpa might have shoved a box of "E98's" into his Buster Brown shorts the last time he wore them (before his growth spirt), and totally forgot about it also.


So:
1 -- Has there ever been a c1910 candy container found unopen ?
2 -- No I didn't eat ther York, but I did seriously consider it.

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Posted By: robert a

Maybe some of the hardcore box collectors can add more, but the caramel companion pieces appear to be very difficult to find. We've seen a few wrappers on this board for chocolates and the Cocoa bottles from Crofts are pretty common, but I'm not sure those had anything to do with the cards.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

maybe you could post some "typical" caramel stains, since I don't know why/how you conclude that the stains on that Mack are from a lozenge or other hard candy.

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Posted By: Richard

I have a few caramel companion pieces that I will show after I take some pictures.

However, I believe that many E cards were probably given out along with the product, or to advertise the product, rather than actually inserted into the product like T cards.

Anyone else share this thought?

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Posted By: robert a

Todd,

These stains are what I was referring to:



With the e98s, I've seen orange and pink stains and also stains that look more like these caramel colored blotches.


Richard,

I've noticed that the E90-1, E90-2, and E90-3 don't have any stains. I would guess they were given out instead of inserted.

On the other hand the Philadelphia Caramels and Cracker Jacks were definitely inserted in my opinion.

Rob

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Caramel stains have a distinctive look because caramel is made with fat (butter) and milk (the sugar and milk proteins react in a Maillard reaction [aka caramelization] to create the distinct caramel color). The stains are oils from the candy leaching into the paper. Hard candy is sugar, flavoring and water.

You really would not want to find an old caramel box. The materials in the candy go rancid over time.

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

I'm sure many caramel cards were damaged and then destroyed after mice and rats nibbled on the cards. I know I have seen many half-eaten cards on eBay over the last 10 years. I'm sure the rodents made quick work of any caramel cards that were still packaged in there original boxes with candy or caramel.

Patrick

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Posted By: leon

These are probably close to being period but I don't think they contained a card....The candy isn't too tasty ....

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

I don't remember where I got this scan from (it is NOT mine) but as I recall, this card came directly from the box. Although non-sport, it at least shows that some cards were packaged within the product as opposed to being handed out along side the product.

- Jon

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Posted By: leon

Thanks for posting that box. I think I can date mine a little later now and say maybe 20's to early 30's? (just a guess). Generally the more primitive of designs on these types of things the earlier they are. regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- if my history is correct, the Cake Walk was a dance craze from the first decade of the 20th century, and I believe popular with African Americans. So your box would be awfully close to 1910 (but my dates could be off a little).

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Posted By: Scott M.

Leon,

I have one of those Jolly Rover boxes as well and agree with Barry that I feel they are closer to 1910. They are very similar to the Dockman produced 1910 All Star Baseball cards/boxes that I wrote about in Old Cardboard issue #3



In addition to 1910 All Star Baseball there are plenty of other examples of boxes surviving (without contents) where the card was part of the packaging such as Baseball Bats, Darby Chocolates, J=K, Orange Border and recently the W555 box which came to light.

I've long held the opinion that certain E issues were likely distributed in multiple ways. IMO, the anonymous type issues were likely given to several companies to give away as they saw fit. In some cases they may have been distributed with product while in others, perhaps, you were given a card over the counter with a purchase at your corner candy store.

For boxes where an "E" card may have been included inside there was less incentive to keep the box, obviously, since the card was not part of the packaging itself so I think it is highly unlikely that a box containing an E card and product will ever be found. I won't say impossible because we see some amazing things in this hobby but I do think it is highly unlikely.

One thing I can say for sure from my experience in opening the Jolly Rover box is that anything inside such a box would likely be heavily damaged if the contents included some type of caramelized candy.

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Posted By: Richard

Here is a Jolly Rover box with the contents caramelized to the point where the sugar coated the box and the contents.

I think I may have bought this box from Dan M a while back.

It took some time to pry it open and check the contents - found a few pieces of candy that don't look quite as tasty as Leon's along with a tiny flip book with caramel stains all over.





and a few other items E card related:

American Caramel candy box



and a few E94 George Close Candy related items:









and finally an E105 Mello Mint wrapper that I never get tired of showing: