NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-08-2006, 11:50 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Brian

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html

<<snip>>

Depending on the substance, Bonds used the drugs in virtually every conceivable form: injecting himself with a syringe or being injected by his trainer, Greg Anderson, swallowing pills, placing drops of liquid under his tongue, and, in the case of BALCO's notorious testosterone-based cream, applying it topically.

According to the book, Bonds gulped as many as 20 pills at a time and was so deeply reliant on his regimen that he ordered Anderson to start "cycles" -- a prescribed period of steroid use lasting about three weeks -- even when he was not due to begin one. Steroid users typically stop usage for a week or two periodically to allow the body to continue to produce natural testosterone; otherwise, such production diminishes or ceases with the continued introduction of synthetic forms of the muscle-building hormone.

Bonds called for the re-starting of cycles when he felt his energy and power start to drop. If Anderson told Bonds he was not due for another cycle, the authors write, Bonds would tell him, "F--- off, I'll do it myself.''

<<snip>>

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-08-2006, 11:56 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Hal Lewis

Absolutely disgusting.

He should have to give back the $50,000,000 he has earned by cheating.

His stats should be stricken.

Cheater.

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-08-2006, 12:00 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: jay behrens

Does anyone else find it disturbing that the major sources of the books info is from secret grand jury testimony, supposedly sealed files and other sources that are not supposed to be revealed to anyone outside the ongoing investigation? I don't care one way or the other if he used anything or ot. I am worried about less than legitimate way this all being brought to light.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-08-2006, 12:06 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: warshawlaw

If the consensus is that he has been using illegal drugs and/or illegally using prescription drugs for the last several years and has been lying about it, I would support his being placed on the ineligible list for the HOF.

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-08-2006, 12:07 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: jay behrens

Hal, practiacally every player cheats in one way or another, so the point is moot. Persoanlly, I think Leon should delete this thread since these Bonds threads never produce anything productive.

Jay



I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-08-2006, 12:16 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: barrysloate

Next year Mark McGwire becomes eligible for the Hall. He will be the test case for all future cheaters. Problem with Bonds is his stats may be too overwhelming to keep him out. I think we are treading into unchartered waters here.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-08-2006, 12:24 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: leon

O/T's are permitted by board participants. Brian is one and doesn't start too many o/t's.....rules are the same for everyone....carry on....

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-08-2006, 12:40 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Oh no, do you mean that character make over where he dressed up like Paula Abdul is going to be forgotten and now we're going to hear Barry defend himself and tell us how much the press is out to get him and how baseball isn't fun anymore... we'll see what happens next week.

Jay, this isn't a slam on Bonds. This is the reality that is Bonds. Yes, he is a monster at the plate but he created this little world of his. I'll be honest with you, I enjoy watching him crush the ball.. it's like an art form for him...

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-08-2006, 12:42 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: martin dalziel

Jay, I agree - its very disturbing that the majority of this information is likely from material that should not be accessable. There is the comment at the end of the article that suggests that material was sealed but now is not - that doesn't make sense to me, but it doesn't change the fact that information put into the public domain that is not based on records available to the public should be questioned as to its validity.

Having said that, I really wish the truth would come out. I personally believe Bonds has been juiced for years and because of that he has no legitimate standing in the game. His records shouldn't be asteriked, they should be purged and deemed non-consequential.

If its proven that he was juiced he should never be eligible for the HOF.

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-08-2006, 01:13 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

As a criminal defense attorney, I can tell you that supposedly sealed grand jury testimony is constantly leaked to the media by prosecutors looking for an edge in the court of public opinion. That Bonds is the victim of possibly leaked grand jury testimony - a crime itself - does not cause me to shed a tear for him. I think if Bonds really cared about clearing his name he'd take a polygraph test administered by either a law enforcement polygraph specialist or otherwise universally recognized examiner, instead of dressing up like Paula Abdul and appearing to have some human qualities for the first day in his life. Jay, what you say about cheating and baseball being intertwined I cannot disagree with. However, every generation has its own social mores to be followed and clearly this generation doesn't like cheaters in baseball. It's the reason that Sammy Sosa was basically kicked out of baseball along with Raffy. And why McGwire is universally ignored.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-08-2006, 01:37 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: fkw

He is a man who hits a baseball with a wooden bat like all before him has. It may have been an advantage it may not have. The guy is still hitting HRs every 7-8 times up, even at 42.... Why because he is that good. The records will stand. Everyone has cheated/had advantages in baseball in some form for 140 years.

The list is long and every era had advantages/disadvantages.....everything from no night games, stealing signs, higher mounds, greenies, DH, corked bats, spitballs, batting helmets, steroids, short fences, elbow/shin guards, no negro players, webbed gloves, maple bats, vasoline, infield fly rule, astroturf, overhand pitch, coke, pinetar, 162 game schedule, 60'6", sunglasses, clean white baseballs after every pitch, domes, batting gloves, scuffing up balls, 5 balls is a walk, ...etc., etc.

The game naturally has changed over the last 137 years.

The way to correct it is to test for steroids and end it now and they seem to be doing the right thing. Just like outlawing the spitter, making the pitching distance 60'6", and letting Jackie Robinson in the Majors corrected those situations.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-08-2006, 02:06 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: John Kal

It's such a joke. Open your eyes and look at him!!!

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-08-2006, 02:12 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Cy

Let's face it. If any sport not only condones cheating but endorses, it’s baseball. If you look at
any time period, baseball players cheated. I truly think that much of this is being brought up
because people hate Bonds. Look at Roger Clemens. If he isn’t a poster boy for steroids, who is?
He has gotten much thicker in the same time period as Bonds. His roid rage has been notorious,
throwing the bat at Piazza, etc. Maybe we should check into Clemens and eliminate all his
records.

What about Schilling? He adamantly voiced his disapproval of steroids and stated he never did
them. But what do you think they put in him the night he pitched with a bleeding ankle? Does
anyone believe he was enhanced one way or another? Let’s look into that and take away that
World Series from the Red Sox, too, if he was administered anything to enhance his
performance.

Then there’s the classic Hall of Famer, Gaylord Perry. Didn’t he cheat every game he pitched?
Let’s go back, erase every out that he induced from the averages of each of those batters and
give the batters their due.

Also, let’s check all of the hallowed ballplayers of the 50's and 60's that did amphetamines. I
stated this before and someone pointed out that it is not the same thing as steroids. I beg to
differ. Is taking amphetamines a way to enhance your play chemically? They may not be as
potent as steroids, but it was cheating. Let’s put each and every player under oath and ask
whether they took any type of amphetamine. If so, purge the records.

And finally, when Bonds was supposedly doing steroids was it illegal? That is the key question.
Whether it is illegal in the United States has no bearing on whether it was against the rules of
baseball. Heck, Dock Ellis pitched a no hitter on LSD! He admitted that. Should we purge that
record too.

I truly think this is taken out of context and I also feel it is a vendetta against Barry Bonds. If he
wasn’t in the picture, they would let McGwire and Sosa and Clemens and all the others alone
and never hassle them.

My thoughts.

Cy

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-08-2006, 02:19 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: T206Collector

...people are so concerned is because Bonds holds the single-season record for HR in a season, and is vying for the career mark this year. It is the single most recognizable individual achievement in professional sports in this country. They are the Ruth records. Also known as the Aaron records more recently. No records are more sacred. That is why this topic generates so much controversy. If you had evidence that Ruth, Maris and Aaron were doping to improve their performance, then it would be quite controversial even today. If McGwire still had the single-season record, his testimony before Congress (or lack thereof) would have been much more consequential.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-08-2006, 02:19 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: cmoking

"It's the reason that Sammy Sosa was basically kicked out of baseball"

If Sosa was still hitting 50+ HRs a year, he'd still be in demand. The reason he is just about done is because he sucks and can't play a lick anymore.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-08-2006, 02:26 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: whycough

(like me) to have seen Hank, Mickey, Ted, Willie, Joe. Then you would understand.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-08-2006, 02:34 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Cat

Just watch ESPN Classic and you will realize how rampant the problem is...even in the mid 80's the players look frail as compared to the last few years.

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-08-2006, 02:59 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I would like to hear one shred of evidence "Cy" has in support of the claim that Roger Clemens or Curt Schilling are steroid users.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-08-2006, 02:59 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: warshawlaw

1. These topics are fun; not everything can be about cardboard, nor should it. A little human interest and current events from time to time is good for the vitality of the board.

2. Examples: I am tired of the "they always cheated so it is ok that Bonds is too" line of reasoning. Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't give a crap if every player in baseball used steroids; Bonds is not right to use them too. When your kid writes on the wall with a crayon are you going to accept the "Jimmy does it too" defense?

3. Records: From what the SI article said, I don't think we are dealing with a leak here. Moreover, so what? How the records came out doesn't change what they say.

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:00 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Scott Gross

Shrinkage of testicles
Low sperm count
Sterility
Cancer of testicles

Jaundice
Impaied liver function
Liver cysts
Liver tumors
Liver cancer

Heartbeat irregularities
High blood pressure
Fat/sugar metabolism disfunction
Increased risk of heart attack

Weakness in connective tissue
Stunting of bone closure

Severe mood swings
Hostil, aggressive, violent behavior
Changes in sex drive

Nausea
Water retention and bloating
Loss of appetite
Vomiting

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:03 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Cy

Peter,

I didn't say Schilling used steroids. But do you think he was shot up with something when he pitched that playoff game? Do steroids only count when one is enhanced chemically? If not, then his win should be erased as well as Bond's records.

As far as Clemens is concerned, no one is investigating him. But he has all of the symptoms that Bonds has , and more to me since he definitely showed a lot of steroid rage in his pitching days (as compared to recent times).

Cy

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:06 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: warshawlaw

Severe mood swings
Hostile, aggressive, violent behavior
Changes in sex drive
Water retention and bloating


Married men, you know what I'm talking about

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:08 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

he definitely showed a lot of steroid rage in his pitching days (as compared to recent times).

Cy, in case you weren't watching Roger Clemens had a sub 2.00 ERA LAST YEAR, what do you mean by "in his pitching days"???

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:33 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: DJ

The truth of the matter is the game's integrity is in place. The baseball that was played from the late eighties to the beginning of this century is not the same game that was played during Roger Maris' time. In every logical debate, there is that one person that is simply fights for the other side and looks for a good debate.

Sure there have always been in one form another a slight advantage to the sport, whether it be racism that disallowed baseball to introduce into the mainstream the amazing Josh Gibson or even the slight flutter of a spit ball. But steroids is no way a small way of cheating. It increased the power numbers of hundreds and hundreds of stars and in doing so, tarnished the stat books as it seemed liked everyone was trumping Roger Maris and here we have someone that the world suspects as being a cheat ready to hit the most home runs in the history of baseball. It's bad enough that he trumped Maris' single season record. Now he's about to trump the Bambino.

I know of a couple of players that have not been mentioned that took steroids. They were not very good players and basically hung on at the end of the career and were bit players. They got large raises. There home run totals doubled and were able to hang around the sport an extra couple years. If they can turn a five home run a year hitter into a twelve home run a year hitter, than something tells me that it can turn a fifty home run a year hitter into a seventy home run a year hitter.

Guilt doesn't come in admission and there's nothing worse than being lied to. Rafael Palmeiro doesn't even have a job. Sammy Sosa doesn't have a job. Bret Boone doesn't have a job.

The reason we "pick on" Bonds is because he is about to re-write history and did I miss something? Curt Schilling and Roger Clemens are on steroids? C'mon.

Bonds is a bad guy and he's hiding and everyone knows it. Sure he has a sweet swing and that's pretty, but the truth of the matter is that it insults his godfather, the Bambino and Hammering Hank by being included in that exclusive company.

DJ

Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:33 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Cy,

Do you have any idea how brutal the daily workout routine of Roger Clemens is? Jerry Rice is the only other athlete I can remember that worked that hard.

Let's see some pictures of 43 year-old board members when they were 23 vs. now. I'm guessing most have added a few pounds, too.

It's irresponsible and unfair to start throwing around accusations of steroid use because a guy has anger issues and gained some weight. Clemens may have rage, especially in the heat of competetion, but I strongly doubt it is roid rage.

But, what Bonds is to hitting, Clemens pretty much is to pitching, so I guess if you're good at what you do, it must be steroids.

It's really sad that we've all become so jaded and skeptical after McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Palmeiro, etc. that when true greatness is right before our eyes, we're blind to it.

-Ryan

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-08-2006, 03:59 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: dennis

roger clemens is pitching for the USA team in the world baseball classic. the drug testing is the same as in the olyimpics. i must then conclude he and his teammates are clean.FACT is players today are bigger than 20 years ago. ball players did not lift weights years ago. they do lift weights today. weight training is year round for almost all pro athletes. they are much bigger.

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-08-2006, 04:10 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Cat

Players were working out in the 80s. Many were committed to baseball 12 months per year. They weren't lifting as many weights because they couldn't. The recovery time for weight lifting is lengthy...roughly 48 to 60 hours. It used to be counterproductive to lift weights in season and play ball six days per week. Now with steroids, the recovery time is much quicker and allows players to lift 12 months per year.

Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-08-2006, 04:13 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Cy, I'm not trying to join in on the point - counter point to what you said but...

Clemens didn't throw the bat at Piazza... he chucked the bat off the field and if you watched it he wasn't aiming for Piazza. Piazza just happened to be going back to the plate. Believe me, I wanted the Mets to take down the Yanks and I was no big fan of Clemens that day. Clemens didn't throw the bat at him in anger... I couldn't believe that people were making a big deal out of it.

Clemens is where he is because of his workout regimen. I seriously doubt he's a roid maniac. Clemens was always a bit thick and he's added a few pounds. Barry's added a LOT of pure muscle mass.... looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... it must be Barry...

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-08-2006, 04:17 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

My recollection is that Clemens just threw the bat sort of contemptuously/disgustedly, but not AT Piazza.

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-08-2006, 04:19 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I used to think Clemens was on the juice due to his increased size and longevity. I don't think it anymore. Why on earth would the guy knowingly go into international play with the drug testing? If he was no longer on 'roids he would just embarrass himself - and this is not a guy who enjoys embarrassing himself. As for Bonds, the point made previously that the HR record is the most hallowed in all professional sports is the right one. That's why people hate him so much: he's stomping on all that is holy to us crazed baseball fanatics. Sure lots of guys cheated: but none on such an important issue as the HR record.

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-08-2006, 04:49 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Did you see the other day when he was throwing a practice game or maybe it was batting practice against the Astros minor leaguers, his kid takes him deep on the first pitch, next time up he knocks him down, and when asked about it he says "I was just showing him the ball from a different perspective." Hysterical.

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 03-08-2006, 04:53 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: warshawlaw

This last weekend I was umpiring a coach pitch game when a dad totally lost control of his pitches. The first one was high and outside, the next one was low and inside, the next two after that were behind the kid and the 5th one hit the kid. He (the dad) was so embarrassed he quit and had to be relieved. I was struggling not to laugh.

Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 03-08-2006, 05:25 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: whycough

Go to www.bostondirtdogs.com for some pictures of the Sultan of Shots.

Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 03-08-2006, 09:14 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Mark Rios

Bonds is always a firm reminder of why we have abortions...

Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 03-08-2006, 09:29 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: J Levine

I hope he makes the Hall of Fame. I hope he tells the truth. I hope he makes millions. As long as he is held responsible for his actions. If the steroids he took (if he actually took them) were illegal at the time then he should be punished.

Next, I want to see studies where steroid use is linked to improving hand-eye coordination, bat speed, and form control (the three things it takes to really be a successful major leauge hitter). Steroids are horrifically dangerous and people take them to help them increase strength, mass, and recover and heal faster but is it worth it?

If we are going to keep people out of the Hall of Fame for cheating in the game then Perry is out for the spitter-scuff-shine ball. Wait, McGraw is out for his antics at third base and stealing signs. Anson and Kelly are done too, their "cheating" literally changed baseball rules for things like time-outs, out of bounds fouls, baserunning, and line-up switches. Wait, Paige is out too...notorious for stunts that were not quite up to par. Do not even want to talk about Cobb.

What I really want Barry to do is to start by making PSAs about the horrific risks of steroid use. I do not care if he admits he did it. If he was serious, he should become the spokesperson for the anti-steroid movement. I would not only be proclaiming my innocence, I would be making sure everyone knew I was opposed to them.

I can not believe I even added to this thread...

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-08-2006, 10:47 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Bonds is always a firm reminder of why we have abortions...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. No longer in South Dakota it would appear.

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-09-2006, 12:16 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: jay behrens

Hmmmm...Clemens is lauded for his rigorous workour regimine and is said to be proof that he is not on the juice. Yet this same exact reason is cited as why Bonds is juicing so that he can maintain his manical workout schedule. Which one is it? People also cite all the physical changes to Bonds as proof that he using, yet these same people say it's just natural aging when they talk about Clemens.

When you get down to it, if Clemens were Black and hated as much by the press as Bonds is, you'd see the same scrutiny. I'm never one to play the race card, but so much of this is about race, the media's dislike for Bonds and the fact that he chasing hallowed records. Some also mentioned the fact taht Clemens playing in the WBC is proof positive that he is not using. What a laughable statement. If he and Bonds are currently using, they are using something that cannot currently be detected. If they aren't using anything, they quit when baseball implemented the stricter testing and penalties. I seem to recall reading somewhere that Bonds has been tested twice since the new rules came into effect and he has come up clean both times. Guess he never used either.

Face it, Clemens is white and beloved by the writers. They don't want to see anything happen to him, so they aren't going to persue any possible sterroid use by him.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-09-2006, 01:59 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: rob

Is it any wonder that's he's retiring now? He hit the most vicious line drive single to a 3rd baseman I had ever seen in my life, anyone else would have had a line drive out. Sosa had terrible acne as a side effect, something which I've seen referred to once, and not mentioning Sosa by name.

I have no problem with Bonds and Palmerio getting elected to the Hall of Fame. As it's been pointed out, pitchers have used and benefited from steroid use as well.

No one complains that Burleigh Grimes is in the Hall of Fame, yet he had the advantage of using the spitball throughout most of his career while the opposing pitcher was forbidden to use that pitch. A much better argument can be made Grimes had an unfair advantage as opposed to Palmerio and Bonds.

Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-09-2006, 04:02 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: rp60

I disagree that race is a factor with Bonds, in this instance. People are responding to the alligations, his career numbers, and his personality, and not the fact he is a black man..Its not a 'given' that it is a factor. At least not to me...

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-09-2006, 05:26 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Chris Mc

I wasn't going to put my two cents in but upon reading the article feel a need to vent a little. What has happened is a wrong. There are many wrongs in sports that are or have been tolerated. Wife beaters, drug addicts, tax cheats and many other "kinds" of criminals. The biggest point and I don't think it was mentioned is what kind of message is it sending to the kids. Hey , as long as you are good at the sport you play it doesn't matter what you do so long as you don't get caught. It's the wrong message and I think professional athletes should adhere to higher standards.

Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 03-09-2006, 05:50 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: rp60

Heres to innocence lost through Baseball..Thats why it is the greatest of all games..

Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 03-09-2006, 06:33 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: John Kal

Steve Somers, "The Schmoozer," on WFAN last night (NY sports radio) while talking about Bonds.

Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 03-09-2006, 07:41 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: identify7

There is no innocence in baseball, and there never was.
I don't care if it is kids learning about gambling by flipping cards or buying a pack and getting lucky with a high value insert -or- a professional athlete being banned from the sport for life because he got caught doing something illegal.

Its all luck + politics.

The only thing which counts is what counts. And so far, there have been very few "do-overs" in baseball. ie. if you strike out on a spitball, you have struck out. The pitcher may be thrown out of the game, but you have struck out.

Everything Bonds, Clemens, Rose, etc. has ever done in baseball counts. And I applaud them for that, eventhough I realize some of the methods used may be questionable. But that applies to lots of guys, for lots of years.

Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 03-09-2006, 07:50 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: rp60

The innocense lost that I speak of in not in Baseball. Rather it is in the realization of lifes lessons through Baseball..And, for what its worth, Bonds, I believe is the finest hitter of his generation.

Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 03-09-2006, 08:00 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jay, before you start playing the race card you might want to address one small issue that may be the reason why society and the press are tougher on Bonds than Clemens: a) Bonds has admitted to unknowingly taking a topical steroid, and b) a book just came out detailing on an hour by hour basis, culled from witness statements, tapes, documents, etc., Bonds's steroid use. Nothing of the sort exists with regard to Clemens. Small, niggling point, I agree, but I'm sure Whitey and The Man would probably think it's significant.

Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 03-09-2006, 08:02 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: ChuckkieB

I would just like to point out that Mark McGwire, who was at one point, one of the most beloved players in MLB over the lst 25 years, who is white, by the way, was dragged through the mud worse than any athlete that I can remember.....based on a lot less "proof" than the dirt piling up on Bonds, mind you......so this notion that Bonds is target because he's black and Clemens isn't because he's white is ludicrous to me. Bonds is a target because he's chasing the most coveted record in sports and his personal trainer and other associates have either been indicted or liked to the BALCO steriods scandal. THAT, in total, is why he is "being targeterd." The fact that he happens to have one of the most surly, mean, egotistical, and unfriendly personalities of anyone ever to be in the public eye doesn't help much either. Just my two cents.


CB

Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 03-09-2006, 08:41 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: peter ullman

I agree 100% with Chuck!

Look at Palmeiro, McGuire, Sosa...all beloved by most...until they were caught cheating.

Bonds may be the greatest hitter of our time...but he's still a cheater...and not just a cheater, but a cheater and a jerk!

Noone likes a cheater!

pete in mn

Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-09-2006, 08:46 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

This is actually good because now Bonds can SUE these tabloids (S.I., et al) for making all of these false allegations. Now Barry can have his day in court and have all of these sports rags (like S.I.) print the retraction to the lies that they are propagating about him. America is a great country!!!

I'm pretty sure there aren't going to be many kids that look at him and say - "say it aint so Joe" er, I mean Barry.

The race card? Barry seems to pull it out at his convenience.

Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 03-09-2006, 08:48 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: warshawlaw

Let's see the libel suit...and while we're at it maybe a flying monkey can steal Barry's dog...

Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 03-09-2006, 08:48 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use

Posted By: Cat

Aside from race, don't lose sight of Jay's point that many aspects of Bonds and Clemens career are extremely close parallels...1) physical/bodily changes, 2) an extraordinary ability to maintain a rigorous workout regiment well into 40's, and 3) high level performance well into their 40s. Some of you like to say "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..."

I hate to say it put Jose Canseco has proven to be one of the more credible guys on the subject. Sheeesh, I can't believe I wrote that. But after identifying many users, he has said he believes few if any baseball players are using RIGHT NOW. There is simply to much scrutiny. It makes one wonder how many of these guys' careers were totally propped up by steroids? Is it coincidental that Sosa's and Bret Boone's careers just recently crashed? They are not old guys.

Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
bonds was a superstar, hitting homers, winning mvps Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 08-09-2007 06:03 AM
O/T Bonds Tied Aaron, Any Reaction at the National For Bonds Memorabilia Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 43 08-07-2007 10:05 AM
Will Bonds break record now with new steroid testing in place? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 17 01-13-2005 04:32 PM
Bonds aside, what do you guys think of the SBAR list (first post under Bonds thread)? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 06-07-2002 12:56 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:33 AM.


ebay GSB