Ebay Pennsylvania forger gets 33 months federal time YAY!!

[RichardSimon]

Read this great story:

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news.../83865702.html

[slidekellyslide]

Hmmm...this guy merits Federal investigation but Coach's Corner does not?

[calvindog]

That's a lot of time for a 150K fraud. I've known of some fraudsters who steal tens of millions of dollars and only do a couple years more.

[Bob Lemke]

I thought maybe the story was going to be about that crook Roger Hooper. He and his partner(s) need a 33-month sentence just as badly.

[Vintagedegu]

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[RichardSimon]

We can always hope, that forger and CC are in the same geographical area.
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[tinkereversandme]

That does seem like a lot of time for what he did. How does someone like this (or any forger or outlet) assume that they will get away with something like this forever? I guess I don't understand how these guys operate, and of course if this State is involved, I think like the masses about that other outfit in the same area. I guess they figured out how to play the game correctly, while this unfortunate slob will have a lot of time to think about what he did in the pokey.

Cheers,
Larry

[RichardSimon]

If the Roaches do go down, we can only hope they face the same judge that this schmuck faced.

[GrayGhost]

This is good news indeed. The Roache's Corner has to read this. Its really scary tho, so much fake crap, from Roaches and all over ebag. I'm no autograph expert, but I at least usually know when something at the least looks bad.

You always wonder if someday the autograph collecting part of the Sports business or any other (Celebrity autos, political, etc) will ultimately really go down the tubes. There is no real way to absolutely know, unless you stand in front of the person, but so much is being placed in blind faith and authentication. Its scary.

[Ladder7]

Was it worth it?.. Im thinkin not.

[Jim VB]

There are three parts to a successful CCA sale. CCA itself, the authenticater, and the actual forger.

Coach's Corner has done the best job they can of insulating themselves from legal action.

They sell merchandise authenticated by a third party.

That third party has been adamant about the fact that his, and everyone else's authentication, is only an opinion. We know they are fakes, but he's selling an opinion, not an actual item. There is no regulating body that says his opinion is any good. We know it isn't.

So it seems to this non-lawyer, that in order to nail Coch's Cprner you would have to catch them red-handed, doing the actual signing, or paying the forger outright to do it.

The guy you have to start with is the forger. He's the only one that can flip on the other two parts. Those two have built deniability into their business plan.

[timzcardz]

Smith's tearful plea came on the heels of dramatic testimony by his wife, Beverly, and eldest daughter, Kristen, who said that Smith was the "rock" of their lives.

Maybe the judge took this into consideration and put him away long enough to enable them to get a clue. If this guy was their "rock" they could use some time without him.

I noticed that he thought he was smart enough by using his ebay account to buy the unsigned books and his wife's account to sell them once "signed". Want to bet that he figured if something happend that she would be the one taking the fall?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

There are three parts to a successful CCA sale. CCA itself, the authenticater, and the actual forger.

Coach's Corner has done the best job they can of insulating themselves from legal action.

They sell merchandise authenticated by a third party.

That third party has been adamant about the fact that his, and everyone else's authentication, is only an opinion. We know they are fakes, but he's selling an opinion, not an actual item. There is no regulating body that says his opinion is any good. We know it isn't.

So it seems to this non-lawyer, that in order to nail Coch's Cprner you would have to catch them red-handed, doing the actual signing, or paying the forger outright to do it.

The guy you have to start with is the forger. He's the only one that can flip on the other two parts. Those two have built deniability into their business plan.

The forgers are the key. An anonymous e mail, that was in circulation in the past, named four people as the suppliers of CC. I have no evidence of the truth of the e mail, so I won't repeat the names, but three of the four names did not surprise me at all.

[barrysloate]

What Jim recognizes, and I've thought about this too, is that CC clearly understands what it takes to run a business of this nature for so long without being shut down. I am mystified about how they do it, but one thing they are really good at is staying in business.

[drc]

Always remember that just because people get away with something for a while, doesn't mean they get away with it forever. Continually doing new crimes means continually creating new chances to get caught. Just ask John Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, Bernie Madoff, Baby Face Nelson, Al Capone, et al. .

[danc]

The forger is the key as he produces the product, but the authenticator is just as important to entice a fraudulent sale as even the uneducated consumer understands a degree of risk when purchasing an autograph, but if it comes with a certificate from a handwriting expert, forensic or one of those outfits that exist to pass what everyone else fails, this may sway them to trust the seller.

If you are uneducated, can't you see why someone would purchase something with the assumption it's authentic when you hear useless words like: CERTIFIED! GUARANTEED! 100% AUTHENTIC! EXPERTS!

This convicted seller (hurrah!) got perhaps an extreme sentence because of stupidity. Buy from one and sell on the other? But he is one of hundreds and hundreds that make a living on eBay in exact same fashion. But getting one is better than getting none, so this is a good thing for the hobby. A start, and hoping that others follow on the blotter sheets. And perhaps sway people to stop selling forgeries and perhaps this will bring attention to fraudulent auction houses, sellers and authenticators who have survived way too long and passed so much crud into the collecting community that will remain in collections and passed forth for the time we are on earth. Forgeries never find the trash bin. They get passed on to dumber people.

DanC

[tinkereversandme]

I don't follow the comparison with the notorious criminals and autograph fraud.

In those instances, they actually did harm to people or did something more serious than autograph fraud. Murder. Robbing banks. Madoff ruined lives.

People awoke with hope that their investments would take them into retirement (with trust) and the next day, all they had worked hard for was gone and their lives were in peril. That doesn't happen with autograph fraud unless you invest heavily on the trust of an unworthy outfit and if your investment portfolio consists of autographs, then that's a whole other matter.

And how long has CC been in business? Over twenty years, right?

Back to the this thread, it shows that there is hope and that something is being done which is fantastic and I hope the Government recognizes that this is a serious issue and that more is done in the future.

Regards,
Larry