SGC mistake :-(

[Solemany2k]

I purchased t206 Ty Cobb red graded authentic the card is absolutely amazing but looks like a miss cut and not trimmed. I made the mistake of not taking it out and getting it regraded so I sold it fairly cheap because I've always trusted SGC s process. The new buyer cracked it open sent it back in and it came back with a 4.5 grade. I'm not a professional grader but I had a gut feeling and I blew it. Check it out

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[Solemany2k]

Originally Posted by Solemany2k

I purchased t206 Ty Cobb red grated authentic the card is absolutely amazing but looks like a missed cut and not trimmed. I made the mistake of not taking it out and getting it regraded so I sold it fairly cheap because I've always trusted SGC s process. The new buyer cracked it open send it back in and it came back with a 4.5 grade and I am sick over it. I'm not a professional greater but I had a gut feeling and I blew it. Check it out

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Sorry for all the typos I used voice text in the dark and I guess I should have checked it LOL

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[Solemany2k]

Originally Posted by Solemany2k

Sorry for all the typos I used voice text in the dark and I guess I should have checked it LOL

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The lesson learned is sometimes your gut feeling is what you should go with. The buyer went with his gut and came out way ahead.

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[Leon]

That is grading in a nutshell. They are human and this is going to happen to all of them. I have heard of collectors buying things to crack and resubmit, as their job.

[bbcard1]

Grading is completely a rigged game and it amazes me that few people realize or care.

Sorry to hear that buddy. Hopefully you're not out any real money and the loss is only the what could have been, which still sucks but can be chalked up to a learning experience. If you collect long enough things like this are going to happen but keep at it you'll likely win one too

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Sorry to hear that buddy. Hopefully you're not out any real money and the loss is only the what could have been, which still sucks but can be chalked up to a learning experience. If you collect long enough things like this are going to happen but keep at it you'll likely win one too

Agreed....."A" cards are akin to buying a lottery ticket.

[rats60]

If a grading company can't tell if a card is trimmed or not, that is very concerning. What are you paying them for?

[ullmandds]

Unfortunately mistakes do occur. Similar thing happened to me with a high grade e106 I sent in to SGC...came back A...I sold it...they resent...came back like a 6 I think. I was pissed. Life goes on.

Sadly with many buying only slabbed cards there's no way one can become versed at detecting alterations when a card is in a slab!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by rats60

If a grading company can't tell if a card is trimmed or not, that is very concerning. What are you paying them for?

what do they know/see that you/I can't/don't?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Grading is completely a rigged game and it amazes me that few people realize or care.

+1

[Jason]

That sucks. I had a similar yet less costly lesson when I first got back into Vintage. Lately its been the other way around with trying to cross higher grade cards and them coming back as A.

[Peter_Spaeth]

From what I know there are countless cards that pass through various grades, ncluding A, before ending up in their final and best holders. It doesn't mean things are rigged, it means they are very imperfect.

[slidekellyslide]

Who's to say they didn't get it wrong the second time? Doesn't matter though, once it gets a grade it ain't ever coming out of that holder.

[barrysloate]

Grading is very subjective and as Peter said very imperfect.

Yet grading companies all use a numerical system that gives the illusion of great accuracy. It's supposed to make us believe that TPG's are capable of assessing a card's grade with incredible precision and consistency. Of course, they can't.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

what do they know/see that you/I can't/don't?

If we are paying them for a service, they should be able to do it. A card is either trimmed or not. If they can't determine that, then they are worthless. Putting a number grade on a card is an opinion. It is understandable that one guy might say a card is a 7 and another an 8. Hopefully they have multiple experienced graders putting that number on high dollar cards. With the dollars people are paying for graded cards, there needs to be a minimum level of competence from the grading companies.

[cammb]

The buyer of the card had nothing to loose since it was an A already. I would do the same. Unfortunately when I did it, it came back as an A. LOL

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by rats60

Putting a number grade on a card is an opinion.

This is it. They should be referred to as Third Party Opinions (TPOs), not TPGs. "Grade" has a connotation that it is non-negotiable, and while the graders are using a set of criteria to determine a grade, there is enough subjective opinion involved that it makes grading cards very negotiable.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by rats60

If we are paying them for a service, they should be able to do it. A card is either trimmed or not. If they can't determine that, then they are worthless. Putting a number grade on a card is an opinion. It is understandable that one guy might say a card is a 7 and another an 8. Hopefully they have multiple experienced graders putting that number on high dollar cards. With the dollars people are paying for graded cards, there needs to be a minimum level of competence from the grading companies.

Agreed 100%.

[hysell]

Wouldn't it be crap, if we were to find they hire Collage kids with no back ground ? All they have is a chart & scale and text to go by ?

[boneheadandrube]

BEFORE




AFTER

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by hysell

Wouldn't it be crap, if we were to find they hire Collage kids with no back ground ? All they have is a chart & scale and text to go by ?

This is the genius of PSA. Other than the top couple of guys, we have no idea of who grades the cards or what their qualifications are, but it makes no difference.

[bobbyw8469]

Look how the Wallace flairs out on the bottom left....I think the altered was right to begin with, and now it resides in a numbered holder.

[biggsdaddycool]

Originally Posted by rats60

If a grading company can't tell if a card is trimmed or not, that is very concerning. What are you paying them for?

Bingo.


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[vintagebaseballcardguy]

rats60: "If a grading company can't tell if a card is trimmed or not, that is very concerning. What are you paying them for?"

Originally Posted by biggsdaddycool

Bingo.


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I agree with this sentiment. Stuff like this sucks a little more fun out of the hobby and simply steers it down the road of cards being labeled as commodities and not much more. Very sad...

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[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Grading is completely a rigged game and it amazes me that few people realize or care.

+1

when their motto is it's only a opinion they can not be held accountable.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by hysell

Wouldn't it be crap, if we were to find they hire Collage kids with no back ground ? All they have is a chart & scale and text to go by ?

What makes you think that is not what is happening?

The TPG's grading specifications appear to be a collage of subjective views.

Originally Posted by Johnny630

+1

when their motto is it's only a opinion they can not be held accountable.

I know plenty of people who freely share their opinions, and they're idiots.

[Chuck]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that Wallace - it's a beautiful card. Again, buy the card, not the holder.

[JollyElm]

The TPG's should put out expansive and unedited (except for time) videos of vintage cards going through the actual grading process, so all of us collectors can finally get some legitimate insight as to what is going on there. Make them randomly selected submissions meandering step by step through the entire operation, showing EXACTLY what is going on behind the scenes. Yes, of course, there is plenty of room for the companies to put the best light on their workings, but hell yeah would it be a big step in the right direction.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Chuck

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that Wallace - it's a beautiful card. Again, buy the card, not the holder.

Look at the left side how it flairs out at the bottom, and tell me again, objectively, there is nothing wrong with that card.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Look at the left side how it flairs out at the bottom, and tell me again, objectively, there is nothing wrong with that card.

The card is probably not flat in the holder...

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

The TPG's should put out expansive and unedited (except for time) videos of vintage cards going through the actual grading process, so all of us collectors can finally get some legitimate insight as to what is going on there. Make them randomly selected submissions meandering step by step through the entire operation, showing EXACTLY what is going on behind the scenes. Yes, of course, there is plenty of room for the companies to put the best light on their workings, but hell yeah would it be a big step in the right direction.

There's a really good chance that when a company is very busy your cards don't get a full look. If they are allowed to just give out an A or N5 because its "an opinion", then I'm sure many cards that need to be looked at closely (hard ones, like vintage ) are just given the N5 to save time and move on to the next batch knowing that the customers will likely resubmit anyway. Ask anyone who has sent in 100 T206's what their results are like.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by rats60

If a grading company can't tell if a card is trimmed or not, that is very concerning. What are you paying them for?

I do believe Your statement is correct!

So I'd Like ta look abit inta this issue with this particular Card of Mr Cobb.
I'm fairly familiar wit E90-1's, I've seen my share & have been bringing them to my home fir quite sum time now!

Well, first off I noticed the High Top Left & Low Bottom Left White Borders of Mr. Cobbs Card Being The Same Height. This is just a check that my mind has become accustomed ta makin! Doesn't mean the Card is "Trimmed", Howevar this is a Very Good Tell Tale Only because this particular Cut isn't as Common among the E90-1 Set But Certainly Not the Whole Truth to the Cards Health.

Usually if the Top Left width has more White Border the Lower Left has less, and it's of Course the Same fir the Right side of the Card Top to Bottom.

I had many conversations about this same issue wit this Set. Just Because a Card has been Factory Cut Odd, Perfect or just down right Freakish, Doesn't necessarily mean it's JUST "Authentic"... If You Can't get inta the the Holder is another Reason Some Cards Lose Value! No Grade, No Holder Leaves the Customer weary wit of possible foul play.

I understand where the OP is Coming from! I've a few Stories that have Only made me be more Diligent wit my Prewar Education...
"At Sum Point, GettiN Spank'd is Part of Any Real Education"

So Congratulations!!!
You've Punch'd a Very Real Ticket in Your PreWar Education...
I'll wager this Doesn't Evar Happen Again iN the OP's World!!!
(This is All Tongue in Cheek Kinda Stuff ~ Please Don't Evar Take What I Have ta Say wit Any Kind of Intellect ~ I Love bein a Mullagan : )

Here's a few Cards that will show a bit of what I mention'd!

[CMIZ5290]

I can't believe someone is actually bad mouthing SGC on this forum.....Refreshing and scarce...

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Unfortunately mistakes do occur. Similar thing happened to me with a high grade e106 I sent in to SGC...came back A...I sold it...they resent...came back like a 6 I think. I was pissed. Life goes on.

Sadly with many buying only slabbed cards there's no way one can become versed at detecting alterations when a card is in a slab!

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.....And you still love SGC right Pete? I know sending it to PSA was not an option even though there's potential double or triple resale value....

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.....And you still love SGC right Pete? I know sending it to PSA was not an option even though there's potential double or triple resale value....

Interesting considering it was just pointed out that PSA made the exact same error on the Wallace.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Interesting considering it was just pointed out that PSA made the exact same error on the Wallace.

Not at all Dan, PSA is human as well, absolutely. What I get sick and tired of is hearing about how great SGC is on this forum, how corrupt PSA is, and most of the SGC supporters say, "I love the SGC holders (really?), they are more consistant than PSA, and I dont care about resale value, just the card... Really? How much sense does that make? What percentage of members on this board value their money? Answer....100%.

[chalupacollects]

I may be wrong but couldn't you at one time have had a card slabbed as authentic only without paying extra for the numerical grade? This may be a case where original slabber did that to save a few bucks and just protect the card...

[swarmee]

You still have the ability to declare "slab as authentic" even if it makes a number grade, but I don't think the submitters of these cards would have done that. These are not cards to be ashamed of and label as authentic instead of giving a number.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

This is it. They should be referred to as Third Party Opinions (TPOs), not TPGs. "Grade" has a connotation that it is non-negotiable, and while the graders are using a set of criteria to determine a grade, there is enough subjective opinion involved that it makes grading cards very negotiable.

100% agree Garth :-)

[Thecafewha]

Originally Posted by swarmee

You still have the ability to declare "slab as authentic" even if it makes a number grade, but I don't think the submitters of these cards would have done that. These are not cards to be ashamed of and label as authentic instead of giving a number.

You’d be surprised how different people view lower grades versus a nice looking slabbed authentic card. It would be interesting to know from the flip if it was assigned a A or the A was chosen by the submitter.

I have purchased a few PSA A cards that were purposely slabbed without a numeric grade. I have resubmitted 3 and all 3 received a numeric grade (although they were lower grade Venezuela Topps).


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[Leon]

Many times lower grade cards aren't slabbed as they bring more money raw..
..in hopes of high(er) grades that they really aren't .

Originally Posted by Thecafewha

You’d be surprised how different people view lower grades versus a nice looking slabbed authentic card. It would be interesting to know from the flip if it was assigned a A or the A was chosen by the submitter.

I have purchased a few PSA A cards that were purposely slabbed without a numeric grade. I have resubmitted 3 and all 3 received a numeric grade (although they were lower grade Venezuela Topps).


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[Solemany2k]

Would you give this a 3.5 ?

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[bounce]

Originally Posted by Solemany2k

Would you give this a 3.5 ?
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Probably not - I think that's a generous grade on that Cobb.

Visible corner crease, four well rounded corners - but the centering and color are good.

I doubt if re-subbed this comes back a 3.5

[Johnny630]

Who else belives the grade depends on whom submits the card??

I'm a firm believer in this.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Who else belives the grade depends on whom submits the card??

I'm a firm believer in this.

I believe you need your complete name to give that opinion.

I agree though, In my honest opinion it does make a difference who the submitter is.

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by Solemany2k

Would you give this a 3.5 ?

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There are a lot of older graded cards that would not get the same grade today due to PSA's tighter standards. I have a couple in my collection as I'm sure most of us do.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Who else belives the grade depends on whom submits the card??

I'm a firm believer in this.

I think there is some logic to this, as most any business tries to please their most loyal clients.

However, I also think that maybe there is an inherent bias in the subject group: the people who are more likely to get preferential treatment are people who submit more and the people who submit more are more likely to be industry professionals, the very people who likely have a discerning eye when it comes to spotting cards that will grade well.

[Johnny630]

You give them more credit them me Garth :-)

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Who else belives the grade depends on whom submits the card??

I'm a firm believer in this.

Johnny, I don't think your thinking is out of line at all.....