A question for the REAL old-timers!

[droid714]

I'm no spring chicken myself, I'm 65 years old, but I'm still too young to remember the cards from the 1950's The first cards that I personally collected from packs was the 1962 Topps set. I probably collected about half of the set and I have recollections of a few individual cards.

For example, I distinctly recall having at least two complete Ruth subsets along with a few more doubles. I also specifically recall having a Willie Tasby card, although I haven't the faintest clue if it was the "W" on cap version or the "plain cap" version. I wasn't even aware that there were two variations of the card.

The 1962 set had the "Green Tint" series, yet I have no recollection of ever noticing any green tinted cards, although I was never really looking for them.

Many early sets, (1949 Bowman, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1959 and 1960 Topps) had back color variations. most had cards that were available in both gray or white cardboard; the 1952 set had the black and red backs and the 1953 set had the biographical information printed in either black or white. The 1954 Bowman set had numerous error cards that had the stats corrected in later printings.

Today's collectors are keenly aware of these variations and even pay premiums for some of them.

My question is this: Back in the day, were collectors aware of these differences? Were these variations sold together in the same packs? For example, the first 180 cards of the 1956 Topps set came in both white and gray backs. Were the cards in a pack either all white or all gray or could they be mixed? If you had noticed the differences, were you curious as to why the difference?

I've never heard much said about this subject and I've always been curious about it.

[Leon]

I am not sure of the answers but this thread was moved from a BST area to gather more responses. Good luck in the quest.

[topcat61]

Interesting question. I think it depends on the era in which collector's were collecting cards. Our Hobby Founders probably noticed a lot more than the kids did when it came to error cards.

It's difficult to say for sure who picked up on say, the 1957 Topps Gene Baker error other than the printer. As a printer myself, I know just how many quality-control checks I'd have to do on a sheet and it was at least 6 to make sure I got every color matched up to the key. On the 1952 Topps, the red/black backs were two separate print runs each of the first series and the colors denote this.

I have a sneaking suspicion that rival gum/card companies and the ball players themselves were grabbing card packs in the 40's and 50's just by the amount of Personal Privacy law suits and contract violations there were.

[swarmee]

Are multiple card stock variations available in the same packs? I doubt it, because most of the sets like that were printed in different series, and by different printing houses. So pre-1974, all Topps packs were in series of about 80-100 cards each.

If you wanted to do a study, there are now a preponderance of wax pack ripping videos on YouTube like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6bu-0N6IQg

Just search "Vintage Breaks" and the year and manufacturer to see if there are any videos of packs being broken. Some sets have hundreds of opened packs stored on the net. People that want to try and identify pack sequencing can also watch these videos and learn how they were packed. The company is opening up vintage packs daily on their YouTube or Facebook channel if you want to watch regularly. Although they've now branched out into very new cards as well, so it's not just vintage anymore.

[56Horsehide]

I am 72 and bought my first cards when I was 9 from a really small neighborhood grocery/gas station - way before convenience stores were formed. My board name, "56Horsehide" is based on my first purchases. I was certainly aware there were white and gray back cards but figured it was just the type of paper they printed on. I can not say for sure a certain pack (5 cents) was all gray or all white. I still have all my cards from 56-60.
I often wonder which cards I put in my bike spokes, which I shot at with my BB gun, or what I traded away. Back then card values were not a concern - it was the player or the team.
I still enjoy my childhood cards and have added to my collection over the years. My childhood cards are all identified and such and my family is well aware of which ones they are.
Thanks for the post, it is always fun to enjoy looking back in time.

[BruceinGa]

I just turned 70 and most cards that I bought were 1961 and 1962 Topps. We would go to town and buy 1962 Fleer cards. Every once in awhile some 1959 and 1960 Topps would show up from friends. I would assume that it came from an older brother of one of my friends.

[tedzan]

As avid BB card collectors when we kids, most of us were interested in the players' pictures and the informative bios on the backs of the cards.
Variations in colors, printing errors, etc. didn't phase most of us. For example, the 1952 Topps set was issued in 6 series. The first three series
[#1-80....81-130....131-190] had front and back variations. Here is an example of the Black and Red backs of a first series card. In the Spring
of 1952, as a young kid in Hillside (NJ), I remember getting only Black backs of the first 80 cards in this set. A friend of mine in North Carolina
collecting 1952 Topps 1st series cards got Red backs. This back color change occurred during Topps press runs of their 2nd series cards (which
they printed with Red backs). Circa Summer of 1952, Topps re-printed their 1st Series cards (#1-80) due to the tremendous demand for their
product. This time with Red backs (as cards #81 - 407). You had to be collecting 1952 Topps cards back then to really appreciate how popular
they were that year.

Note the subtle color difference on the front of these two cards. This is true for all 1st series cards.
.




TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[AustinMike]

Like you, I'm 65. Unfortunately, I can't help with your question very much. I don't recall buying all that many packs of cards. My main collecting dealt with going to the commissary with my mom and picking out which Post cereals to buy. Although there are variations in some of the Post cards, I wasn't aware of them at the time and focused only on whether I had the player's card already or not. I'm sure I probably also had some '63 Jell-Os thrown in the mix but I don't recall if I realized they were different sizes. My wife claims I'm not very observant, I'm sure I was even less so back then.

[Leon]

My wife says I can't hear well. I hear everything well I just don't listen to her . It is called selective hearing. Great stories so far. And to the original question, when we pulled cards from packs as kids, in the late 60s and early 70s I don't ever recall hearing about errors. We just looked for the players we wanted.

Originally Posted by AustinMike

Like you, I'm 65. Unfortunately, I can't help with your question very much. I don't recall buying all that many packs of cards. My main collecting dealt with going to the commissary with my mom and picking out which Post cereals to buy. Although there are variations in some of the Post cards, I wasn't aware of them at the time and focused only on whether I had the player's card already or not. I'm sure I probably also had some '63 Jell-Os thrown in the mix but I don't recall if I realized they were different sizes. My wife claims I'm not very observant, I'm sure I was even less so back then.

[swarmee]

Not the 1969 Topps White Letter variations or the loop on the Graig Nettles RC, Leon?
I was 10 when the Fleer Billy Ripken card ruled, so kids my age were very tuned into errors growing up.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Leon

My wife says I can't hear well. I hear everything well I just don't listen to her . It is called selective hearing. Great stories so far. And to the original question, when we pulled cards from packs as kids, in the late 60s and early 70s I don't ever recall hearing about errors. We just looked for the players we wanted.

and the reason my grand pa tuned out my nagging grandmother with the transistor radio w/ ear plug for 50 years. Would you rather be listening to Vinny & Chick or a nagging shrew.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Not the 1969 Topps White Letter variations or the loop on the Graig Nettles RC, Leon?
I was 10 when the Fleer Billy Ripken card ruled, so kids my age were very tuned into errors growing up.

I traded my 10 Ripken FF cards when they came out for a Seattle Slew of vintage cards that are now worth $$$$. Error cards and variations are for morons, IMHO.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I traded my 10 Ripken FF cards when they came out for a Seattle Slew of vintage cards that are now worth $$$$. Error cards and variations are for morons, IMHO.

Quit beating around the bush. Tell us how ya' really feel, Chuck? Here is an error card just for you. There is only 1 of each orange background although I have heard there could be a duplicate of a player I have never seen it verified. And I only had to pay approximately 8x what a regular one goes for.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Another 65 year old. I bought my first cards at a neighborhood grocery store really just a house in 1961. I think I bought one pack of Topps baseball and was really turned off by a checklist card, I felt cheated. That Fall and Winter I bought 1961 NuCard Football and am surprised that I wasn't turned away from collecting by their erratic numbering! I loved the little pennants and covered my book covers with them.

In 1962 I was all in on Topps Baseball and even managed to talk the lady at the counter our of two empty wax boxes to store them in. I was very aware of the green tints and enjoyed finding the differences. What I had trouble understanding was the gaps in my cards. Apparently my store did not get every series so I had complete series just not every series.

1962 Topps Football was perfect, living in the south football was and is king. The Football Bucks were a big hit. In 1963 we had a Laundromat not far from our school that had Fleer Baseball, I completed the set minus Adcock and a checklist. I actually remember liking the cookies inside more than Topps gum. Around 1980 I ran into an old classmate that walked to school with me, we mentioned still having our cards. We got together to trade and I picked up the Adcock. Just last week a card shop owner asked me if I needed a checklist. I said yes and he said that one that was checked on one side walked into his shop. $20 later I brought it home and completed the set I started 56 years ago!

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Leon

My wife says I can't hear well. I hear everything well I just don't listen to her . It is called selective hearing. Great stories so far. And to the original question, when we pulled cards from packs as kids, in the late 60s and early 70s I don't ever recall hearing about errors. We just looked for the players we wanted.

The wife button on my hearing aids is labeled OFF

[dabigyankeeman]

I dont remember anything about variations back then, and I collected.

What I remember most was the 1955 Bowman set, the oldest set I remember. I can still remember opening packs and thinking how neat it was that they looked like little color tv's, very advanced for those times!!!

But again, I dont remember being aware of any of the variations when I was growing up.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by dabigyankeeman

I dont remember anything about variations back then, and I collected.

What I remember most was the 1955 Bowman set, the oldest set I remember. I can still remember opening packs and thinking how neat it was that they looked like little color tv's, very advanced for those times!!!

But again, I dont remember being aware of any of the variations when I was growing up.

Very true. My father worked at Electronics Park near Syracuse in the early 50s where the early color TVs were designed and built. We had one in our home in the mid-fifties, but there was very limited programing available. The 1955 World Series was the first broadcast in color. I suspect that the color broadcast of the WS was in planning for months in advance of the series, and perhaps Bowman's card design was influenced by this knowledge.

Whether or not the card design influenced the sales of color television in 1955 is not known. Suffice it to say, that very few people saw those games in color. We not only had the only color tv on the block, but probably the only one in the town of Manlius, NY.

[hank_jp]

When I started collecting, I recall some of the 1950's Bowman's but when the 1952 Topps cards appeared they were the only baseball cards we were interested in. Error cards, misprints if we saw any, meant nothing to us, only the picture of the players on front. We had no concept that cards were printed on sheets, cut up and randomly put into packs, but we sure knew was what the gum tasted like and doubtless we can still recognize the smell and taste 60+ years later. No one cared about centering or sharp corners. We held these cards, studied their backs, carried them in our pockets to school, usually wrapped in a rubber band to keep them together, and waited until we got that next nickel to spend on another pack at the candy store.
The 1952's were big and beautiful and we loved them. We couldn't wait to add more players to the team we rooted for. Gus Zerniel with all those baseballs was an oddity to us and Jackie Robinson stood out in the set as he did on the field. The 1953's with full face images were also very striking. The 1954's with a big picture and and a small action shot and team logo was like getting a bonus. For me, these were the best years bar none. None of my friends, what were we, 8, 9, 10 year olds ever heard of T206's or Goudey or Playball ... and our mothers, for the most part never grasped the concept of private property.
Collecting cards were not limited to sports in those days. We had so many other colorful cards to enjoy. Look n See, Flags of All nations, Frank Buck's Bring em Back Alive, Rails & Sails, Wings, World on Wheels, Jets Rockets and Spacemen and Presidents. It seems between our cards, comics and Classic Illustrated we got quite an education and boy was it fun.
But red backs, black backs, gray backs or white backs - we could care less.
However if we were Dodger fans we wanted Duke Snider and Giant fans wanted Willie Mays and it didn't matter if we had to trade a Mickey Mantle to get them.
To quote Bob Hope, "Thanks for the memories."

[Leon]

Thanks for sharing. There are still collectors who only collect fronts of the pre war vintage cards. Something for everyone in our hobby.

Originally Posted by hank_jp

When I started collecting, I recall some of the 1950's Bowman's but when the 1952 Topps cards appeared they were the only baseball cards we were interested in. Error cards, misprints if we saw any, meant nothing to us, only the picture of the players on front. We had no concept that cards were printed on sheets, cut up and randomly put into packs, but we sure knew was what the gum tasted like and doubtless we can still recognize the smell and taste 60+ years later. No one cared about centering or sharp corners. We held these cards, studied their backs, carried them in our pockets to school, usually wrapped in a rubber band to keep them together, and waited until we got that next nickel to spend on another pack at the candy store.
The 1952's were big and beautiful and we loved them. We couldn't wait to add more players to the team we rooted for. Gus Zerniel with all those baseballs was an oddity to us and Jackie Robinson stood out in the set as he did on the field. The 1953's with full face images were also very striking. The 1954's with a big picture and and a small action shot and team logo was like getting a bonus. For me, these were the best years bar none. None of my friends, what were we, 8, 9, 10 year olds ever heard of T206's or Goudey or Playball ... and our mothers, for the most part never grasped the concept of private property.
Collecting cards were not limited to sports in those days. We had so many other colorful cards to enjoy. Look n See, Flags of All nations, Frank Buck's Bring em Back Alive, Rails & Sails, Wings, World on Wheels, Jets Rockets and Spacemen and Presidents. It seems between our cards, comics and Classic Illustrated we got quite an education and boy was it fun.
But red backs, black backs, gray backs or white backs - we could care less.
However if we were Dodger fans we wanted Duke Snider and Giant fans wanted Willie Mays and it didn't matter if we had to trade a Mickey Mantle to get them.
To quote Bob Hope, "Thanks for the memories."

[pingman59]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Not the 1969 Topps White Letter variations or the loop on the Graig Nettles RC, Leon?
I was 10 when the Fleer Billy Ripken card ruled, so kids my age were very tuned into errors growing up.

Errors and Variations were something that didn't even occur to me when I was buying packs in 1968-75. Then, a sample of Sports Collectors Digest arrived and WOW, what an education. Ralph Nozaki would write about E's and V's and it was very interesting reading.

[2dueces]

Can’t help with your answer but I’m 63 and purchased my first cards in 1966. I grew up in Buffalo, New York that didn’t have a MLB team so I was drawn to football. 1966 TV set boarders but my favorite were Monster Laff cards. Had almost 3 complete sets.

[droid714]

I meant to include it in my original question, but does anybody know why they switched between the gray and white stock? My first though was that they simply ran out of one stock and used what was available but if you look more closely, it seems like they planned for the different stock.

For example, in the 1959 and 1960 sets, Topps very clearly alternates the stock by series:

1959

1-110 (110 cards) (White)
111-198 (88 cards) (Gray)
199-286 (88 cards) (White and Gray)
287-374 (88 cards) (Gray)
375-440 (66 cards) (White)
441-506 (66 cards) (Gray)
507-572 (66 cards) (White)

1960

1-110 (110 cards) (White)
111-198 (88 cards) (Gray)
199-286 (88 cards) (White)
287-374 (88 cards) (Gray)
375-440 (66 cards) (White and Gray)
441-506 (66 cards) (Gray)
507-572 (66 cards) (Gray)

Any thoughts?

[Exhibitman]

I've only been collecting since the early 1970s. Back in that time info on errors was word of mouth. It was hobby lore you'd acquire from "talking" with people at "card shows"; alien concepts, I know. And once you knew of a variation you'd hunt them down relentlessly and see how many you could grab up. My first list of variations and errors was in The Complete Book of Baseball Cards vy Steve Clark (1975).

[tachyonbb]

Born in the 40's started collecting in 1955. I used to use any Yankees card as a target for my bb gun and eventually my .22 Must of shot a bunch of mantle cards during my time . Other Yankee cards went between the spokes of my bicycle until i learned how to cut sheet metal which made a much more satisfying sound.
The cards were and education. Living in fly over country and not owning a tv set our only knowledge of the players in the majors came from the cards and the daily paper. I made a notebook with the starting lineup of the Cardinals and their history from the cards. (Omaha was their class "A" western league club until 55 then their "AAA" club in the American Association).
The first set I completed was the 1960 Topps. like many of you, mom threw my collection of 1000's of cards away when i was in college. (She did keep my sophomore English notes from high school in case i would need them in the future.

[insidethewrapper]

As a kid I collected from 1958-1962 and never remember a word being mentioned of errors or variations. Checking off the checklists was the main thing and trying to complete a set.

[insidethewrapper]

Frank: You must have been one of the first in the country to have a Color TV in 1955. Only 3% had a Color TV in 1964 ! That's why The Beatles were in b/w on the Ed Sullivan Show that year.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tachyonbb

Born in the 40's started collecting in 1955. I used to use any Yankees card as a target for my bb gun and eventually my .22 Must of shot a bunch of mantle cards during my time . Other Yankee cards went between the spokes of my bicycle until i learned how to cut sheet metal which made a much more satisfying sound.
The cards were and education. Living in fly over country and not owning a tv set our only knowledge of the players in the majors came from the cards and the daily paper. I made a notebook with the starting lineup of the Cardinals and their history from the cards. (Omaha was their class "A" western league club until 55 then their "AAA" club in the American Association).
The first set I completed was the 1960 Topps. like many of you, mom threw my collection of 1000's of cards away when i was in college. (She did keep my sophomore English notes from high school in case i would need them in the future.

Many in today's climate could use those notes!

My earliest collecting experiences were in around 1966/7 or so. As previously stated, I don't remember looking for errors but I do remember listening to the Astros on the radio, in the front yard of our sw Houston house, eating sunflower seeds and spitting out the kernels on said front yard. .

.

[50sBaseball]

I am 73 and bought wax packs from 1953-1961. In my younger years, I was guided by older brothers, with whom i traded. As a few others have already said, we were mostly interested in who was on the front of the card, and were most interested in players on our favorite teams.
I noticed that card backs were different colors, but so what? I never thought one might be more valuable. I never got a 1958 Topps Frank Herrer error card, but had I done so, I would have felt ripped off...like this card is defective. I remember getting a 6-card pack 1957 Topps pack and all the cards were badly out of focus...I felt cheated by Topps!
Though I did read the backs of cards, and found it interesting who were World War II veterans and the jobs that ballplayers had in the offseason, it was all secondary to who was on the front. Occasionally, we might find an "error" of some sort on the back of the card, but it was no big deal. And we could not easily Google to find out if a birthdate or HR total was wrong. The cards were what they were and we enjoyed them for what they were. Great times!

[50sBaseball]

Make that Pancho Herrera, not Frank, in the 1958 Topps set.

[ocjack]

Cover page and two sample pages of the Nozaki book. As stated above, it used to take research and conversations with others to determine error/variation cards. I remember roaming many card shows looking in the 1957 commons bin for Frank Bakep. Fwiw, in probably 7-10 years of searching, I was only able to find 2.

[jsanz]

Great thread. So much fun to read about cards when it was just a hobby. I collected in the 80's so it was a very different experience. We did have a lot of fun with cards. I still think back to some great memories.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ocjack

Cover page and two sample pages of the Nozaki book. As stated above, it used to take research and conversations with others to determine error/variation cards. I remember roaming many card shows looking in the 1957 commons bin for Frank Bakep. Fwiw, in probably 7-10 years of searching, I was only able to find 2.

So there were some error collectors, just not the abundance of them today. Thanks for posting those pages...

[JayZim13]

I'm 75. The first cards I remember were the 1954 Topps. We loved the cards and really just wanted our favorite players. I also collected 1955 and 1956 Topps. I bought all my cards from a local candy store in the Bronx. I never saw a Bowman baseball card, but did see lots of 1955 Bowman football. My cards were important not for just the players but for flipping.
I stopped buying cards in 1957. Started buying 45 records and discovered girls!

[droid714]

Thanks to everyone who has responded, very interesting stuff!

I have another question along these same lines and I don't want to start another thread if I don't have to.

It has to do with the 1952 Bowman football set. I'm curious, were the large and small cards sold side-by-side, or did the large cards come along after the small cards sold out?

If they were sold side-by-side, why would anybody buy the small ones if they could buy the large ones?

I'd love to hear from someone who was there "back in the day"!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by droid714

Thanks to everyone who has responded, very interesting stuff!

I have another question along these same lines and I don't want to start another thread if I don't have to.

It has to do with the 1952 Bowman football set. I'm curious, were the large and small cards sold side-by-side, or did the large cards come along after the small cards sold out?

If they were sold side-by-side, why would anybody buy the small ones if they could buy the large ones?

I'd love to hear from someone who was there "back in the day"!

Early in the Fall of 1952, BOWMAN issued their FB set. In order to compete with the very popular larger size 1952 Topps BB cards, Bowman re-sized
their regular set of FB cards. Then re-issued these larger size cards circa....Nov/Dec of '52.






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[GoldenAge50s]

I may seem a bit windy to start, but I want to try & offer some perspective from another Net54 "oldtimer"! I'll be 80 come July.

Right after the war, in 1946, my folks bought a hotel in the small Western NY town of Attica and I grew up, started school & grew my interest in sports from the time I was 6 up to 13 yrs old, living w/in a short bike ride of the prison grounds..

My 1st cards were a few 1948 Bowman at the age of 8, but 1950 Bowman really was when I started collecting in earnest--I still possess the full sets of both '50 baseball & football I put together back then w/ cards from the local Rexall Drug store, candy store & anywhere else that sold them in mainly "penny packs"! I even picked up '49 Bowman "Wild West" cards & still have my "near-set" altho in rather rough shape as I "played" w/ them too much!

On to '51 & '52 Bowman, then came the BIG CHANGE, the appearance of 1952 Topps! Nice, NEW BIG CARDS--we had to have them! I started going to the town dump on my bike to find beer & pop bottles to cash in for card money! The SAD part of this story is the fact that we thought the set was complete @ 250 cards!! NO 3rd series cards ever appeared in my area around Attica, let alone a 4th series! It wasn't until years later I even knew more cards existed!!

In 1953 we sold the hotel & moved to my mother's hometown of Wellsville, NY, home of the "smallest city in the US" to support a Minor League team, in the Class D PONY League (Pennsylvania, Ontario, New York)--also Tony Conigliaro's only Minor Lg stop in 1963, to Red Sox in'64!!

I continued collecting until about 1956, when my interest in High School, 45 RPM record of Elvis, & girls, etc caused my boyhood collecting to basically end!

I was fortunate in one respect. I stored my collection in cigar boxes, shoe boxes, inside whiskey cases and put away in the bathroom closet as I wanted to keep them, being the "pack rat" that I was as a kid! Thank God my mother never threw them out when I left home for college & they stayed there until the '80's when I returned home & "rescued" them from storage!

I am now selling most all these cards on EBay & right here on the BST as I think it is time to let them go!

Thanks for reading my essay--if I have provoked any questions, feel free to ask me via PM/EM.

Fred

PS: My recollection of 1952 Bowman Football is similar to that of Ted, 1st came the "Small" & shortly after came the "Large", w/ BOTH of them on the counter at the same time in many stores! I went after the Small, but when the Large appeared, I went all in as I did w/ the Topps Baseball.

To this day I have my complete set of "Large" completely graded by SGC just as they came out of the packs! Some can be seen on the SGC Registry under Goldenagers 52's, as well as my 1950 FB set & 1953 Topps "Who-Z-At-Star" set (only one registered!) I sold all my Small sometime ago!

[GoldenAge50s]

Just realized I forgot to respond to the Error question!

As I recall, it was NEVER even a thought in our minds--all we wanted was to get all #'s issued and extras of our favoites so we could trade w/ our collecting friends. Even mis-cut, OC or gum & wax stains were barely noticed!---we were looking for the cards----and, of course, the GUM!!!

[62corvette]

Born in 1947, I was buying Topps and Bowman starting 1955, and was absolutely captivated when I saw a 53 Bowman Musial. To me, the most beautiful card ever. Variations were nothing to us, and blurred, miscut cards were thrown away. I traded gum for cards with those certain guys who like the gum better. Can’t brag too much, though, because I traded Whitey Ford and 9 commons for the Smokey Burgess I needed to complete my 1960 set.

[skil55voy]

I started collecting in 1962. I was 6 years old. I distinctly remember the green tints looking different from the "regular" cards. I also had the 2 different Hal Reniffs and the Babe Ruth card with the same number 139. I had the Tasby with no hat insignia. The one I remember most from the set was Wally Moon. I had the photo of him with the bat and the one with just a head shot. It was the first set I ever completed. I sold the set in 1987 when my second daughter was born. (Doctor bills)

[Scooby]

To all the "old Timers' posting their memories of collecting in the early days.....Thank YOU!
What a great montage of collecting memories and what it was like back in the day. Thanks for sharing those memories!