American Greed-CNBC

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by olrac44

I'd have to go see if I still had that Catalog from 2007 but again this gentleman is talking as if his cards were MINT like so many other people tend to do with their own RAW cards. Plus someone couldn't have bought the lot broke it down and graded a few cards....kept a few cards for themselves....and sold off the rest by consigning the rest back to Mastro Auctions? If everyone knew back then that Mastro Auctions was getting the best prices around....why wouldn't you consign the remaining cards back to Mastro?

I can't believe how many are taking Mastro's side in Evers' case. They literally stole from him. They did the same thing to a local friend of mine who sent them a ton of early football memorabilia. They completely ignored his instructions to list the important and valuable programs separately. They lotted them all up and didn't even mention the highlights in the listing.

And does anyone really still believe that "gypsy" story with regards to Lionel Carter?

[Mdmtx]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I can't believe how many are taking Mastro's side in Evers' case. They literally stole from him. They did the same thing to a local friend of mine who sent them a ton of early football memorabilia. They completely ignored his instructions to list the important and valuable programs separately. They lotted them all up and didn't even mention the highlights in the listing.

And does anyone really still believe that "gypsy" story with regards to Lionel Carter?

My post was the first reference to the guy with the shoebox. I did not defend Mastro at all. Never have. Never would. The shoebox guy has every right to be pissed because it does appear the Mastro took advantage of him.

However, I think it's fair to say he took advantage of the original seller. He mentioned someone else was coming up the driveway and he had to hurry and make the deal. In my opinion he took complete advantage of an unsuspecting seller. If this sale was on eBay, or from someone who held themselves out as a dealer, I would have no issue. But it wasn't portrayed that way. It was some individual who got screwed by a flipper. Bit I guess that shouldn't be a surprise in the baseball card world. There are a ton of guys in this hobby that have no problem conducting business by duping people.

Mark Medlin

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

My post was the first reference to the guy with the shoebox. I did not defend Mastro at all. Never have. Never would. The shoebox guy has every right to be pissed because it does appear the Mastro took advantage of him.

However, I think it's fair to say he took advantage of the original seller. He mentioned someone else was coming up the driveway and he had to hurry and make the deal. In my opinion he took complete advantage of an unsuspecting seller. If this sale was on eBay, or from someone who held themselves out as a dealer, I would have no issue. But it wasn't portrayed that way. It was some individual who got screwed by a flipper. Bit I guess that shouldn't be a surprise in the baseball card world. There are a ton of guys in this hobby that have no problem conducting business by duping people.

Mark Medlin

Yeah, something doesn't seem right with that garage sale story.

[Buythatcard]

Evers should not be the focus of this thread. He did nothing wrong.

I believe every AH and eBay seller that shills their items should watch this video because this might wake them up.

[spaidly]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

My post was the first reference to the guy with the shoebox. I did not defend Mastro at all. Never have. Never would. The shoebox guy has every right to be pissed because it does appear the Mastro took advantage of him.

However, I think it's fair to say he took advantage of the original seller. He mentioned someone else was coming up the driveway and he had to hurry and make the deal. In my opinion he took complete advantage of an unsuspecting seller. If this sale was on eBay, or from someone who held themselves out as a dealer, I would have no issue. But it wasn't portrayed that way. It was some individual who got screwed by a flipper. Bit I guess that shouldn't be a surprise in the baseball card world. There are a ton of guys in this hobby that have no problem conducting business by duping people.

Mark Medlin

As a buyer, I don't feel obligated telling the seller I think they priced their item too low no matter what their lot in life is (dealer, garage sale dude, hobbyist...). Sellers should do their research. Even pre-internet everyone knew baseball cards could be valuable. One trip to the local bookstore and a few hours of research is all the garage sale dude needed to do. Don't we all dream of "the find" and getting a killer deal on it?

Respectfully,
Scott

[Mdmtx]

[QUOTE=spaidly;1698588]As a buyer, I don't feel obligated telling the seller I think they priced their item too low no matter what their lot in life is (dealer, garage sale dude, hobbyist...). Sellers should do their research. Even pre-internet everyone knew baseball cards could be valuable. One trip to the local bookstore and a few hours of research is all the garage sale dude needed to do. Don't we all dream of "the find" and getting a killer deal on it?

Respectfully,
Scott[/QUOTE

Karma can be a bitch.

[Peter_Spaeth]

[QUOTE=Mdmtx;1698592]

Originally Posted by spaidly

As a buyer, I don't feel obligated telling the seller I think they priced their item too low no matter what their lot in life is (dealer, garage sale dude, hobbyist...). Sellers should do their research. Even pre-internet everyone knew baseball cards could be valuable. One trip to the local bookstore and a few hours of research is all the garage sale dude needed to do. Don't we all dream of "the find" and getting a killer deal on it?

Respectfully,
Scott[/QUOTE

Karma can be a bitch.

+ many.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by spaidly

As a buyer, I don't feel obligated telling the seller I think they priced their item too low no matter what their lot in life is (dealer, garage sale dude, hobbyist...). Sellers should do their research. Even pre-internet everyone knew baseball cards could be valuable. One trip to the local bookstore and a few hours of research is all the garage sale dude needed to do. Don't we all dream of "the find" and getting a killer deal on it?

Respectfully,
Scott

Not all of us are looking to take advantage the elderly.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rats60

Not all of us are looking to take advantage the elderly.

Always 2 points of view. I am with the other guys on this one. If you are elderly you should know to do a little homework. I am almost elderly .....if I short sell something then it's no ones fault but my own. I don't believe the Gypsy story about the Carter collection either. That whole situation was just wrong, in looking at it with all of the facts known in the other scams.

On another point, I heard Mastro is putting those restitution checks in the mail soon. Just don't hold your breath....

[Snapolit1]

I see both sides. My parents live in a classic Florida retirement community. Just for fun I have considered putting an ad in a local paper classifieds looking to buy vintage baseball cards. Typically down there the husband kicks the bucket and the wife sells off his stuff. It would be amazing to walk in on some amazing shoebox in the closet, but the temptation to take advantage of some elderly widow -- who really isn't in a position to do a lot of research -- would be strong. How do you fairly tell someone what their cards are worth? I'm sure I could come up with all sorts of numbers. I really don't want to go there as they say. Someone wants my help I will send them to Al or someone else.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Always 2 points of view. I am with the other guys on this one. If you are elderly you should know to do a little homework. I am almost elderly .....if I short sell something then it's no ones fault but my own. I don't believe the Gypsy story about the Carter collection either. That whole situation was just wrong, in looking at it with all of the facts known in the other scams.

On another point, I heard Mastro is putting those restitution checks in the mail soon. Just don't hold your breath....

So you're OK with all the scammers who prey on the elderly in real estate etc.?

http://www.miamiherald.com/living/article1951047.html

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So you're OK with all the scammers who prey on the elderly in real estate etc.?

That was a stupid question. No. Are you?

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by spaidly

As a buyer, I don't feel obligated telling the seller I think they priced their item too low no matter what their lot in life is (dealer, garage sale dude, hobbyist...). Sellers should do their research. Even pre-internet everyone knew baseball cards could be valuable. One trip to the local bookstore and a few hours of research is all the garage sale dude needed to do. Don't we all dream of "the find" and getting a killer deal on it?

Respectfully,
Scott

I do not feel bad for the two separate ebay sellers who about 10 years ago offered as BIN a SGC 88 63 Rose for $800 and the other a PSA 8 68 Ryan RC also for $800. Ironically, it appears that both sellers did do their research.....the current price guides at the time had a "high" price listed for each of these cards at $800 which is my guess why they listed at the price they did. Unfortunately, neither of these sellers reviewed completed sales on ebay , which at the time, were about twice what I paid for each card.

Again, I do not feel bad, and likely neither would have the next buyer who would have gladly bought either of these cards within minutes of me (and of the original listing).

My guess is that each of these sellers were both glad that their items sold as quick as they did, much like the garage sale seller in the show.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

And does anyone really still believe that "gypsy" story with regards to Lionel Carter?

I have to say that I went back and read my letters from Lionel Carter recently about the attempted theft, and when you realize that it was this crime that prompted him to consign his collection to Mastro, it is extremely suspicious.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Gypsies, who knew exactly where he kept his cards. And Doug somehow KNEW in advance that all would be returned.

[botn]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Gypsies, who knew exactly where he kept his cards. And Doug somehow KNEW in advance that all would be returned.

The initial posts about the theft were very suspicious. I also know of one instance, on a significant card, where Doug was apparently able to convince (or told) SGC that a card that was submitted to them was from the Carter collection when it absolutely was not. It was submitted to them long after the Carter collection was sold and was done in an effort to make this card worth more money for the owner, who knowingly went along with the fraud.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by botn

The initial posts about the theft were very suspicious. I also know of one instance, on a significant card, where Doug was apparently able to convince (or told) SGC that a card that was submitted to them was from the Carter collection when it absolutely was not. It was submitted to them long after the Carter collection was sold and was done in an effort to make this card worth more money for the owner, who knowingly went along with the fraud.

Yeah, as a martial arts guy I watched First Blood with back in the day said about the fight scene in the police station, too many right angles. I can't remember the details fully now, but as I recall Greg we both noted some weirdness at the time like the gypsy explanation, and Doug stating confidently the cards would be returned when he could have had no way of knowing and reason would tell you it was highly unlikely (how many thieves return the goods intact?). And then there were some discrepancies between Doug's account and Rob Lifson's account when supposedly the thieves contacted Rob.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by botn

The initial posts about the theft were very suspicious. I also know of one instance, on a significant card, where Doug was apparently able to convince (or told) SGC that a card that was submitted to them was from the Carter collection when it absolutely was not. It was submitted to them long after the Carter collection was sold and was done in an effort to make this card worth more money for the owner, who knowingly went along with the fraud.

So does everyone believe or assume that auction houses, dealers with large monthly submissions receive special treatment from the grading houses?

Question, at some point (I apologize if this has already occurred), one of the card companies will team up with one of the grading services and insert a redemption card for a certified "10" card. Given that scenario, does the customer still feel a "10" is still possible by purchasing a pack of cards? Do the grading companies take a hit for being in bed with the card companies?

[Jay Wolt]

because at the end of the day these cards are just pieces of cardboard

....and don't forget dollar bills are just pieces of paper

[WWG]

[QUOTE=biohazard;1693721]So does everyone believe or assume that auction houses, dealers with large monthly submissions receive special treatment from the grading houses?

Ask Brent Huigens.

[bnorth]

[QUOTE=WWG;1693829]

Originally Posted by biohazard

So does everyone believe or assume that auction houses, dealers with large monthly submissions receive special treatment from the grading houses?

Ask Brent Huigens.

LOL AWESOME, that has to be the post of the day.

[Bkrum]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I can't believe how many are taking Mastro's side in Evers' case. They literally stole from him. They did the same thing to a local friend of mine who sent them a ton of early football memorabilia. They completely ignored his instructions to list the important and valuable programs separately. They lotted them all up and didn't even mention the highlights in the listing.

And does anyone really still believe that "gypsy" story with regards to Lionel Carter?

Not taking Mastros side at all here. But the show did not paint Evers as a sympathetic figure and read more like a dude who thinks his perceived gold mine wasn't quite as lucrative as he thought. Which as we know happens in LOTS of deals. I would have liked them to focus more on any proof that Mastro stole cards or improperly listed them to buy them at a fraction of their value (did Mastro bid on and win the original lot?). Only so much they can do in an hour.

I did think the federal agents were very well spoken and seemed to understand the business and how Mastro/Allen subtlety shaved profits out of the industry

[turtleguy64]

Evers apparently made himself an expert on grading and said that the Aaron rookie was to quote him "pristine." Really? appeared not to have even been holdered in that gold mine box he bought for peanuts.