Small crease on Ryan PSA 6

[hcv123]

Contact ebay first, then PayPal, then credit card, then PSA (it appears a PSA 4) is where the word "crease" is first mentioned. I might consider taking it up with them. I am not as much as others here for blaming the seller - a relevant question is did the seller know the crease was there. At worst the seller hid the crease in the photo - which is not okay. Most people as you did also rely on a PSA 6 to have certain qualities - a crease NOT being one of them. Most sellers (myself included) do not accept returns on graded cards. All of that said and with the grading guidelines from the PSA website below - I first and foremost see this as PSA responsibility for misgrading the card. Perhaps someone here with experience contacting PSA for this sort of thing could chime in.


From PSA website:
EX-MT 6
Excellent-Mint
A PSA EX-MT 6 card may have visible surface wear or a printing defect which does not detract from its overall appeal. A very light scratch may be detected only upon close inspection. Corners may have slightly graduated fraying. Picture focus may be slightly out-of-register. Card may show some loss of original gloss, may have minor wax stain on reverse, may exhibit very slight notching on edges and may also show some off-whiteness on borders. Centering must be 80/20 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

VG-EX 4
Very Good-Excellent
A PSA VG-EX 4 card's corners may be slightly rounded. Surface wear is noticeable but modest. The card may have light scuffing or light scratches. Some original gloss will be retained. Borders may be slightly off-white. A light crease may be visible. Centering must be 85/15 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the back.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Contact ebay first, then PayPal, then credit card, then PSA (it appears a PSA 4) is where the word "crease" is first mentioned. I might consider taking it up with them. I am not as much as others here for blaming the seller - a relevant question is did the seller know the crease was there. At worst the seller hid the crease in the photo - which is not okay. Most people as you did also rely on a PSA 6 to have certain qualities - a crease NOT being one of them. Most sellers (myself included) do not accept returns on graded cards. All of that said and with the grading guidelines from the PSA website below - I first and foremost see this as PSA responsibility for misgrading the card. Perhaps someone here with experience contacting PSA for this sort of thing could chime in.


From PSA website:
EX-MT 6
Excellent-Mint
A PSA EX-MT 6 card may have visible surface wear or a printing defect which does not detract from its overall appeal. A very light scratch may be detected only upon close inspection. Corners may have slightly graduated fraying. Picture focus may be slightly out-of-register. Card may show some loss of original gloss, may have minor wax stain on reverse, may exhibit very slight notching on edges and may also show some off-whiteness on borders. Centering must be 80/20 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

VG-EX 4
Very Good-Excellent
A PSA VG-EX 4 card's corners may be slightly rounded. Surface wear is noticeable but modest. The card may have light scuffing or light scratches. Some original gloss will be retained. Borders may be slightly off-white. A light crease may be visible. Centering must be 85/15 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the back.

The crease was most likely not there when PSA graded the card. That is a pretty big thing to miss. The most reasonable explanation is the crease was "spooned" out by the submitter and reappeared after it was slabbed. The seller is now trying to stick the OP with a damaged card.

[Exhibitman]

I also have a PSA 6 with a light hairline crease (lighter than the OP’s card). I missed the wrinkle. Subbed it myself so I know it isn’t tampered. If the card is screaming but for the wrinkle PSA will grade it a six.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

If the card is screaming but for the wrinkle PSA will grade it a six.

Agreed. Sometimes they get cards that don't fall within the garden-variety descriptions of their grades. I've had PSA 5's that look like at least 8's and it's because there are light creases or wrinkles, even on the front. Sometimes it took me a couple of minutes and a high powered light to find, but they were there. I think this is a professional grader's worst nighmare - what if the card is super minty looking but has just one or two weirdo flaws...

[jchcollins]

I think it's at least a possibility that the grader was not considering that to be a crease, but an original flaw in the card stock. I've seen this before, particularly on the back of '57 Topps cards - where there appears to be an extremely light "dent" type line in the card. This if I recall was before I had a lot of graded cards, but whatever it was clearly was not a crease. I remember wondering how they would grade.

So no, any PSA-6 should not have a true crease, but I think you may have gotten screwed on a technicality. If it really bothers you and you don't get anywhere with eBay or Paypal (I would bet that you do) then see if PSA will "pay out under the terms of their grading guarantee..." as I've heard Mr. Hall say before. If nothing else it is questionable. It's a shame because that is a nice card (and one I would totally go after, with nice eye appeal but for a hidden flaw...although I would want more of a PSA-4 type price...)

Good luck.

[Exhibitman]

There is a tiny paper wrinkle above one shoulder. I missed it when i had the card raw in hand, I guess. Should this be a 4 or 5? I think not.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Should this be a 4 or 5? I think not.

You have a very valid point, but this is why all grading no matter how detailed will always be subjective. You can have technical grading going into eye appeal as a guide, but eye appeal / extent of scruitny is always going to be subjective and will vary from person to person.

Personally, I would agree with you - no way that card should be less than a 6. But there are folks out there who will argue that no card should ever get a break on a technical flaw - even if only visible under magnification. Which collector is correct?

[Mountaineer1999]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I think it's at least a possibility that the grader was not considering that to be a crease, but an original flaw in the card stock. I've seen this before, particularly on the back of '57 Topps cards - where there appears to be an extremely light "dent" type line in the card. This if I recall was before I had a lot of graded cards, but whatever it was clearly was not a crease. I remember wondering how they would grade.

So no, any PSA-6 should not have a true crease, but I think you may have gotten screwed on a technicality. If it really bothers you and you don't get anywhere with eBay or Paypal (I would bet that you do) then see if PSA will "pay out under the terms of their grading guarantee..." as I've heard Mr. Hall say before. If nothing else it is questionable. It's a shame because that is a nice card (and one I would totally go after, with nice eye appeal but for a hidden flaw...although I would want more of a PSA-4 type price...)

Good luck.

I think this is right. I believe the flaw was in the original card stock. I just wish it was a little less noticable.

It is still under EBAY review for those interested.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

It is still under EBAY review for those interested.

That appears to be a positive sign for you....hopefully it will work out for you.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by rats60

The crease was most likely not there when PSA graded the card. That is a pretty big thing to miss. The most reasonable explanation is the crease was "spooned" out by the submitter and reappeared after it was slabbed. The seller is now trying to stick the OP with a damaged card.

What does a person do when they "spoon" a card? New term for me...

[Rose4HOF]

I gave in and tried spooning the wife....ugh...she still has wrinkles.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Rose4HOF

I gave in and tried spooning the wife....ugh...she still has wrinkles.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

What does a person do when they "spoon" a card? New term for me...

Wet the surface of the card and use a spoon to press the crease out of the card.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by rats60

Wet the surface of the card and use a spoon to press the crease out of the card.

Thanks. Sounds crazy to me.


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[Mountaineer1999]

Seller refused refund so I have opened it up with EBay. His defense in his response to my request was photos were provided and description characterized as PSA 6 so nothing else was needed as he didn't see the crease.

[swarmee]

You are talking with the seller way too much. And you should really take it up with PSA under their grade guarantee, or else this will continue to happen.