NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-06-2006, 04:10 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Dave

Ok, I bought a T206 in vg-ex condition of Clark Griffith....would probably grade a 4-5. I bought it for $100, raw. It has been just over a month now, and card has never shown up. The seller has good feedback, and insurance wasn't offered. (I initially did send an email asking about insurance, but after a few hours just payed the thing through paypal without it to get it in the mail.) The seller has maintaned some level of communication the past couple of weeks on this matter, even said he went to the P.O. to check what happened, but he didn't get any kind of tracking number or anything. Basically, I think it's a snowballs chance in hell this card will ever show up. He offered to try to make the difficult situation right for both of us. I said I'd be happy if he'd refund half the money, $50. He said no, he's offered me the choice of one of his other older cards. A T206 Dooin, a T206 Rhodes, a 1949 Mize Leaf with a signed ball, or a 1941 Play ball, of some common player.....I have the Rhodes...should I just take the T206 Dooin and just be happy about it? The condition of none of the cards was ever mentioned either....
This is why my auction's I like to make insurance mandatory, even though I get hate messages for my shipping being too high...

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-06-2006, 04:37 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Paul

Recently I had a card mailed to me that took a full month to show up, so there is slightly better than a snowball's chance that it will arrive. Also, I would atleast find out the condition of the other cards before making a decision.

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-06-2006, 04:58 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: T E

Contact paypal and open a dispute over the item. Tell them you never received it. In the end, if the seller didn't buy Delivery Confirmation, Paypal will side with you.

I've been selling on ebay for five years-hoofaway

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:02 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: T E

was buying from a jerk. Insurance is not an issue here since the seller was too stupid to even buy tracking, leaving him totally vulnerable to a charge-back. Which he deserves in spades for the way he is dickering with you. Just get your money back and move on.

What is the item #?

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:08 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Dave

Item number .... 120047364769 I don't know if he's a jerk. I think for the money, if I had sold it, I would refund, but everyone is different. I don't want a negative feedback from him, so i'm at a loss...

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:12 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Matt E.

Go to Site Map on Ebay and get sellers information and call him to get a feel for his tone.

Post the acution link for us to see

NO tracking number, No way to trace it, delivered to your home or even accepted at the PO. What did the guy say at the PO "Hey I have a missing bubble envelope" with no tracking number.

Surely not a Postive Feedback or even Neutral.... transaction.



Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:25 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Dave

I guess my guilt trip is he does list in the auction insurance in optional. After the auction ended when I initally asked him about sending me an invoice with insurance included, I guess I should have waited longer than a few hours to give up and pay without it.....but, in the hurry of getting the card here I probably screwed myself. I would imagine that would be his route with disputing with paypal, is that he has on there insurance in optional, and that I didnt take it.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:32 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Denny

Dave, Hoofaway is absolutely Correct! No Delivery Confirmation, Paypal refunds your money...I learned this the hard way. Delivery Confirmation is the saving grace to any ones nightmare. Insurance should be a back up to it when you purchase thru Paypal!
Have a Grand Day~
Denny Walsh

Ps Personally I would take the best conditioned (other, making it 2 for 1, if I heard you right?) Tcard he has to offer. Provided it was in decent shape.

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:41 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: steve

Just be glad it was not $1,000 card. Thats why i ask for delivery confirmation, its worth the 60 cents, goodluck on getting your card.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-06-2006, 06:50 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: T E

The card is a good buy but the seller doesn't really know what he is doing. Stop with the guilt, you paid for something and you MUST get satisfaction. Be careful about waiting too long to put in a claim, I'm sure paypal has a time limit (45 days?) and you don't want to miss it. You can always put in a claim and end the dispute later if you so desire.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-06-2006, 07:24 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Steve

This is a situation that really galls me. If you bought something online from Macy's and it never arrived would you ask them for half the money back? Of course not! What makes ebay sellers so special? You paid for an item. Either the seller insures it (it is for the sellers benefit btw) or he makes good. I would contact paypal and start the chargeback process. screw feedback, you can respond to it.


JMO


Steve

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-06-2006, 07:55 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

The bottom line is that you paid with paypal. If the seller didn't track it or have any proof of attempted delivery then paypal will side with you. The only problem is that if you wait too long you will not be able to open a dispute. I believe that some people actually try to push things out because they know how the system works and they know that after a certain amount of time the buyer will be SCREWED. I don't know who the buyer is in this case but if they accepted paypal and didn't cover their butt then that's their tough luck. They'll learn a lesson from it. In the mean time, try not to make it a lesson learned on your part.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:09 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: JK

I agree, you need to start the dispute process with paypal right now. If the card shows up, you can withdraw the dispute. The seller should have been pretty happy with your offer of only a half refund. Paypal will definitely give you all of you money back under these circumstances. I dont think paypal likes it, but, if you happened to pay via paypal by credit card, you can also go directly to the credit card company with your dispute.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-06-2006, 09:20 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Dan

"Shipping insurance
US $1.35 Optional
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seller's payment instructions
I accept M.O. & cashiers checks or PayPal. If payment not received within 5 days item will be re-listed.I ship USPS. If you want insurance please ask."

Read the auction on Ebay, the buyer is wrong for raising such a stink for it not arriving. For a $1.35 you were covered, a buck thirty five. It was OPTIONAL, which implies that it was your choice as a buyer to opt for the insurance.

All of the major auction houses MAKE the buyer pay for shipping and insurance, just in case something like this happens. At Christmas time there are frequent delays in shipping items to their destinations and that is all that this is I am sure, however, you would feel much better had you taken out the insurance.

I think that it is sad that all of you are piling on the seller only and not the buyer as he was ultimately the one that made a bad choice and not take the buck thirty five option. Delivery confirmation is certainly the safe road for the seller but by no means is it mandatory.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:23 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Joann

I agree with Dan completely. The PayPal dispute option is to try to protect against genuinely dishonest sellers, not to substitute for a buyer's decision not to insure. This seller has 100% feedback over 128 transactions from 103 unique buyers. He has offered some compensation that, in my opinion, he was under no obligation to make at all.

So now everyone thinks he should be beat to death with the PayPal dispute system? That he is responsible for the mail? Does anyone really believe he didn't mail the card? Personally, I don't want all sellers to start requiring insurance on $15 cards, but this kind of thing will leave them no choice at some point.

I'd be really upset if I lost a $100 card - especially a Griffith portrait b/c it's such a nice looking card, and I've been half shopping around for one myself. And I can absolutely see myself asking about insurance and then saying "what the hell" and paying so I wouldn't have to wait. But despite the fact that I can sympathize, this just isn't fair to put it all on the seller.

If he's offered compensation, I think he's done more than he is obliged to do in general and particularly given that he said insurance was optionally available. I'd take it, and be mad as heck about the card lost.

Joann

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:29 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Dave

I am well aware its my own fault not to have held out longer for his response to adding the insurance. And I have no doubt he sent the card. I totally think the P.O. screwed it up. I'm not trying to take advantage of any situation. Honestly he was the one to first mention a couple weeks into it that neither of us should have to totally take a hit. He then mentioned the thing about the other couple cards he has (of which none are of great interest)....so, I mentioned what about just putting $50 back in my paypal, which he said he didn't want to do....his reasoning was....I'm here, and your there......whatever that means.

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:34 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Steve

I disagree. Insurance protects the seller. the seller should include insurance in his shipping and handling costs. If a claim is needed the seller needs to do the paperwork not the buyer. In this case the seller chose not to insure the item regardless of what the description says. the buyer sent the seller what was requested. using the 'insurance is optional' is a copout IMO.

I also agree that the card should show and that the season has it backlogged. I still though say contact paypal before the time period elapses.

Steve

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:40 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Bob

This is exactly why as an occasional seller I buy a delivery confirmation out of my own pocket. Not only will paypal allow you to receive a full reimbursement, I have been a party to an action where I used a delivery confirmation and a buyer claimed he never received the package EVEN THOUGH the delivery confirmation showed it was delivered to his home post office! I was very lucky to avoid being shafted by the dishonest buyer who had his item (not a card) and wanted his money also. Paypal came within inches of giving him the money even though I have 100% feedback over 9 years on ebay and 100% rating with paypal. They made a big deal out of the fact they were "forgiving" me this one time and paying him themselves. Can you believe that????
The bottom line is that as a seller if you use a delivery confirmation, you are PROBABLY BUT NOT ALWAYS protected. If you a buyer and the seller doesn't use a delivery confirmation, EVEN IF HE SAYS INSURANCE IS OPTIONAL and you don't buy it, you are protected 100% of the time.

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-06-2006, 11:08 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

The paypal requirement of proof of shipment protects legitimate sellers from people that opt not to insure their package. If a seller really sent an item and has proof of shipment then the seller did his part and it's just a shame. If the seller (knowing paypal requirements) opts not to spend a little more on shipping (which could be charged to the buyer) then that's something that the seller needs to understand. Paypal has rules in place and these rules are there to protect both the buyer and seller.

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-06-2006, 11:38 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Bob

And then again you have the unscrupulous tiny minority who will ship an empty envelope with a delivery confirmation on it. I guess that is why paypal doesn't automatically protect sellers just because they use a delivery confirmation.

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-06-2006, 11:56 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: PC

Not sure why you're playing patty-cake with the seller -- you should get the full $100 as a refund. Period.

Open a PayPal dispute (I think you have 45 days from the date of purchase to do so), and then you have another 20 days to elevate it to a "claim", after which PayPal will refund your money in full if the seller cannot prove he sent the package or that you received it. Note that you can open the dispute and elevate it to a claim a second later (you do not have to wait).

I would also recommend sending the seller an email telling him you are going to initiate the refund process with PayPal, that he can make things easy by just reversing the full $100 payment (because he is going to lose under the PayPal process) and that you will not leave him a negative on eBay unless he leaves you one first.

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-06-2006, 04:03 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: martindl

Couple of things.

I'm with the poster that said theres still a reasonable chance that you'll receive your card. I had something take six weeks once.

re. the insurance option.
I don't wait for the seller to reinvoice me.
I just add the $1.35 or whatever the amount to the +/- box on Paypal
and add a note saying to use the monies for insurance.

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-06-2006, 04:11 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

The only problem with adding insurance (if it is not offered) is that postal insurance is something that has to be purchased at a post office. Not everyone uses a post office.

If paypal refunds your money you can always repay the seller when the package arrives. An email to the seller stating you received the package wouldn't hurt at all.

Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-06-2006, 04:12 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Joann

Wow. That's so unfair. Probably the way it is, but unfair nonetheless.

As a buyer, if I elected not to insure and had faith that the seller had in fact sent the item, I would not ethically be able to file a claim. That assumes that insurance was an option and available. If for some reason the seller didn't allow insurance, then it is on him.

But what if it was a lot lot lot of money? Then I woulnd't send it unless there was some insurance and delivery confirmation available.

Not second-guessing anyone's actions here - just saying I don't think I could hammer a seller because of the way PayPal is set up.

Joann

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-06-2006, 04:22 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: martindl


Fred,
Good point re adding insurance and not everyone using the P.O. I should have
been clearer. I don't wait for the seller to add insurance if in the description
it says that its offered - I just add it myself. If it says nothing, I ask and then wait.

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-06-2006, 04:38 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Joann,

I can understand your sympathy for the seller. You are trusting that the seller did the right thing by shipping the package. I'm not saying that a seller should be penalized. But, paypal offers certain "protections" for the buyer and seller and it's up to both parties to ensure that they follow the rules so that they are both protected. In a perfect world we wouldn't worry about that. Unfortunately this isn't exactly a perfect world. Actually in a perfect world I'd own at least one of every baseball card I wanted... boy is this an imperfect world.

Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:17 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Dave

I just heard from the seller. And we've agreed on the fair thing being he is going to send me the Dooin portrait card, which he says in actually in better condition than the Griffith was. If in fact it is, I don't see any reason the Dooin wouldn't be a PSA 4, maybe a 5. I know he didn't have to do this. I explained to him that I should have waited to hear back from him in order to get the insurance, but I was being overly anxious like a kid in a candy store wanting the card to get here so I could send it off with some others for grading. Still not sure why he chose to send the Dooin if its in excellent condition as opposed to just giving me $50 back in paypal, but I won't argue that. I also requested this time that he spend the sixty cents on a delivery confirmation. All in all, he has gone out of his way I think to make a bad situation better, and for anyone that has looked up the auction, my opinion is don't hesitate to buy from this seller in the future. I think he has learned some things as well and will readjust how he does his selling from now on. I really didn't want to get into a dispute with paypal because I did feel bad about all this. Also let him know that when the Dooin arrives I'll be more than happy to leave positive feedback.
Dave

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:34 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Can you provide a link to the auciton or the ebay auction number? It's good that this has ended amicably.

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-06-2006, 05:36 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Dave

Hey Fred
The auction link was posted up at my 8:14 AM post
Also....for those wondering..I am kind of a jerk..but my momma did ok raising me. IF the Griffith ends up arriving after the Dooin, than I'll contact the seller and ask if he wants me to send the Dooin back or give him "fair" price for the Dooin.

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 12-06-2006, 06:36 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

The item does say Shipping insurance
US $1.35 Optional.

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-06-2006, 07:32 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

That's a pretty nice looking Griffith for the money. Did the seller have any type of evidence of shipment? If not, judging by their feedback they seem to be reliable. It'll probably show up this week or even next week.

Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-06-2006, 07:51 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Anonymous

No he had no delivery confirmation, no nothing. He did say when this first started and I asked him after a couple of weeks that he was going to go down to the post office and find out where the package when to....not sure how that is done though....with no tracking....

Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:22 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

It's no possible to track something without reference numbers.

Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:53 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: David Vargha

I agree that it is 100% the buyer's problem. That is why I require insurance on all winning bids over $30. I just don't need the heartache when someone opts not to pay for insurance. The seller here has 128 positives with zero negatives. Certainly he is not trying to risk his perfect feedback to scam someone on a $100 transaction. In fact, if he didn't feel compelled to protect his 100% feedback rating, he may not have been so generous in his offer.

I also concur that just because PayPal is skewed towards the buyer, it doesn't mean that it is ethical to demand a refund. Lastly, what is it with buyers and waiting 12-24 hours for a final invoice. My gosh, you've lived without the card for this long. What's another day?


DavidVargha@hotmail.com

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-07-2006, 05:24 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: T E

I am glad that this ended up happily. But as someone who makes a living (and it is hard to do) on eBay I believe that the ultimate responsibility rests on the seller to get the item to the buyer. My feedback is nearing 5000, I have dealt with one or two crooks in all that time. I buy DC so that I know if the item has arrived or not. I insure items over a certain value. I include the insurance in the shipping on the front end-after all, if I am selling a 53 Mantle, I know it is going to go for x dollars, so I know what to charge for shipping.

I have had to issue a couple of refunds over the years, and even those items eventually show up.

As was stated earlier, if Macy's ships an item which you bought and it doesn't show up, Macy's doesn't just say tough, they make good on the purchase. Insurance protects the seller, because it is up to the seller to complete the transaction.

Just mho...

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-07-2006, 05:51 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Ebay trouble....geez

Posted By: steve f

On $50 and above, I mandate the insurance. A sig. is a must. Delivery Conf just seems inadequate, unless it's a low-val card.

I'm certain many of us have cringed when recieving rarities in a plain white envelope wrapped in a sandwich bag between a folded eBay invoice. Oh what scam-potential these sloppy sellers avoided.

Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is anyone one having trouble with REA... Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 7 04-23-2008 08:47 AM
Ebay trouble? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 04-02-2007 10:39 PM
A bit ot ebay trouble; can anyone explain how to deal with this Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 4 09-26-2006 09:51 PM
Am I just asking for trouble? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 2 09-26-2005 09:55 PM
here is one way to get yourself in trouble on ebay Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 7 04-07-2005 10:57 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:09 AM.


ebay GSB