PRO mentioned in Beckett Vintage

[Archive]

Posted By: Chris S.

I just got my issue today and found this nice little bit on page 14...It's from Wayne Grove's "Market Report" column:

"We found a few low pop, high-grade cards on internet auction sites. We'll take a look at what someone was willing to pay for them this past month. First is a 1957 Topps #1 Ted Williams graded Mint 9 by PSA...One sold for $6,600 on eBay this past month.

"It's also important to note that not all 9's are created equal. The same week, a 1957 Topps #1 Ted Williams PRO Mint 9 sold for $909. This is only one example, but it shows that consumers have yet to embrace some of the lower-tier grading companies.For whatever reason, some of these companies haven't been able to establish consumer confidence, and their cards don't demand the same prices even though they may have recieved a high grade. Part of the problem may be that these companies don't have a readily accessible pop report to inform consumers what's available. We won't speculate on other reasons for this trend"

I love that last sentence...perhaps it was placed there by the editor to keep some of Beckett Vintage's readers from writing in to explain their own reasons why a PRO Williams won't fetch six grand...

My take on this whole discussion about graded cards: if a company isn't going to be 100 percent certain that I'm going to be satisfied (i.e. the mention in another thread that grading companies are stating as much in their disclaimers), and many sellers are refusing to take returns on graded material, then there is absolutely no reason for me to give a single dollar of my hard-earned money to any of them.

Some time ago, in my local card shop, I was shown a 1956 Topps Luis Aparicio card, which was graded a PSA6. So, I went to see its Low Beckett price (because that's what the seller should be selling a NrMT card for), and was told by the dealer that the low Beckett price wouldn't be the guideline...I had to take into consideration that he had to spend some money to have PSA grade it.

"So what you're telling me is...even though this card says it's in NrMT condition, I can't expect to buy it at its NrMT price because you had to PAY some so-called "expert" at PSA to deem the freakin' card a 6?"

His response: "Chris, I know you're an old school collector. I know you can remember when we could grade a card by simply looking at it and making an educated guess. But that's not the way it's done now."

So, I did what any responsible collector should do...I refused to buy the card. BTW, it's still in that display case today. I still don't own any graded cards.

------------------------
My vintage cards site:

http://www.geocities.com/chrisstufflestreet/

[Archive]

Posted By: David

Wayne Grove and Beckett are no dummies. They know the reasons why PRO gets such low prices.

[Archive]

Posted By: David Vargha

Knows that the grading cost is not added into the cost of the item. If someone is foolish enough to pay $10 to grade a $5 card, it is still a $5 card. The implicit additional value in the graded card is in the "expert" third party opinion of the authenticity and condition (including lack of alteration) of that card. Therefore, it stands to reason that a PSA 8 or SGC 88 card of Joe DiMaggio that the market prices at $5,000 is going to receive a higher return than a so-called NM/MT version of the same card as judge by Joe Shmoe, the vintage card dealer or the highly suspect grading system of PRO, etc.

That there are poor businessmen who sell baseball cards is not reason enough to avoid cards. Personal preferences, such as collecting sllabbed or raw are just that -- peronal preferences. However, I seriously doubt that one poor business decision on the part of a card dealer is the sole or even the primary reason for you collecting raw cards.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hans

I would NEVER buy a PRO-graded card. It's like the plague. Anyone else have some experience with cracking something out of a pro holder ?

Hans

[Archive]

Posted By: Chris S.

I didn't mean to imply that the reason I don't collect graded cards was because of the incident I mentioned. That was just a few years ago; I decided to leave graded cards alone a long time before that.

Don't get me wrong...I see the value of having your cards graded. It's great to have a way of assigning a precise condition to cards where an EX/NrMt will be hundreds of dollars more expensive than an EX. It beats a buyer and seller haggling over the most minute details. It's also great if you have a top-condition card from a set (like '71 Topps) that's easily damaged. In that case, having the card encapsulated gives better protection than a top loader.

At the present time, I have no use for either of those types of cards. My '71 Topps set is only partially filled, and I'm not condition-conscious until I have the set and work on upgrading it; furthermore, my current budget allows me to buy common cards from the pre-WW2 era and little else. I have a W572 Ruth card, a nice Diamond Stars card of Earl Averill, a '33 G Earle Combs, and a couple other prewar HOF cards, but none would benefit from having them graded.

For the record, I still visit that dealer's store. He's one of the good guys and deserves the support of his customers, but we just didn't see eye to eye on the topic of graded cards. I should point out that he's gotten better...I was in his store a couple of months ago when somebody came in with some graded mid-1970s commons. The commons were all in the PSA 6-7 range, and he asked the guy what possessed him to pay 10 bucks a pop to have 50-cent cards graded.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian C Daniels

Ever actually talked to anyone at PRO* grading???

ever?

[Archive]

Posted By: Dr.Koos

...call it that) to John Hoffman on the "telly". He sounded like he was tanked up on wood alcohol! When he could summon his vocal chords to vibrate accordingly, his answers had NOTHING to do with the question, as though I were talking baseball cards and he was reliving some past event. You'll get no answers from "Beta-wave" John.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bruce Moreland

For stuff like a '56 Topps Aparicio, there is Beckett price and there is SMR, and they might not be the same. Sometimes SMR in PSA-7 than Beckett books the card for in NM, and other times the reverse is true.

I don't have recent guides, but last time I looked, Bekcett on that card was $150, SMR in 7 (NM) was $135, and SMR in 6 (EXMT) was $85.

I doubt that you could get that card for $135 on eBay these days. There is tremendous competition for PSA-7 '56 Topps.

I expect that a PSA-6 would sell for under SMR.

Dealers who don't do much graded stuff often ask too much for it, so it doesn't sell and they just sit there cussing at PSA.

bruce

[Archive]

Posted By: TBob

When I was young(er) and (more)foolish, I bought a couple of PRO cards in holders. The E90-1 Keeler in EXMT is a midget (trimmed up the wazoo). The Good T207 Irving Lewis actually measured correctly. SHOCK. It is probably closer to Fair to Good, though. Since then I have seen a zillion M116 Sporting Life cards in PRO holders which look fantastic but also look trimmed and short. I have been tempted to take a flyer on one or two since they sell so cheaply (wonder why,duh?)but haven't.
Although I probably crack open more slabs than anyone on this board, I veer to the far left lane when I see a PRO slab.