question about old pennants

[thetahat]

Hi,

I came across this forum and was intrigued about prior discussions about old vintage baseball pennants. I collect them myself, to the extent that I have run out of room to display them. Mainly what I am looking for now are the extra large pennats from pre-1920, I have a few already and would like to add some others. I have some questions about the pennant companies ... I notice various styles and, of course, two of them stamp their name on the pennants (Keezer, whose pennants look kinda neat, and Ad Flag which are hideous looking). I am curious to know which companies made the stadium pennants from the 50s and 60s, the picture pennants, the scroll pennants from the 40s-60s, etc. So I'll be raising some questions like this as I become accustomed to the forum.

My first question today pertains to one of my plainest looking pennants, albeit a rare one. It's a 1924 Washington pennant, normal size, dated 1924 with CHAMPIONS on it, with a huge baseball. It looks a lot like a 1925 Pirates pennant (which I have seen before). Have any of you seen a '24 Senators pennant before - either this one or others? This being the only year they won the WS, I am curious to know its value, if in fact it has been sold in an auction or something.

Thanks,

Greg

[perezfan]

Your Washington Pennant sounds like a nice (and a very rare) one. Can you post a photo? There are lots of pennant guys on this forum who can probably help out, but a picture is worth a thousand words. There are not many truly great Washington Pennants out there.

Welcome, and when I have more time, I hope to contibute more to this thread!

[mjkm90]

Welcome Greg and thanks for posting! It's great to see a new pennant guy here.

James Spencer was also a pennant maker during the teens and 20s. I don't collect many pennants from the 50s and 60s, so I can't be of much assistance with manufacturers. I do recall seeing a Senators pennant from that season, but as Mark stated, a photo would help. I'm MUCH better with visual recall. On that same topic, I think I can speak for all when I say...Let's see some of your favorites from your collection and how you display them

[thetahat]

Hey fellas,

Thanks for your replies. I'll get a picture up of the Washington pennant shortly, I have to take one. I have a few pictures already taken of some others; here is one of my favorites, a NY Giants pennant with a "real" wood bat, ball, and googly eyes. It has a "Collegiate" tag on the back, and in fact I have seen some older college penants with similar 3D features. I used to have a similar Yankees pennant but I traded it away years ago.

I'll have more to post in the very near future. Take care

Greg

[perezfan]

Fabulous Giants Pennant... and R A R E !!!

That is a real toughie, as I think maybe 3 have surfaced over the last 20 years I've been collecting these. Only the 3 New York teams had these 3D versions... Giants, Dodgers and Yankees. I would say the Dodgers is the most prevalent (still insanely rare), with the Giants and Yankees being tied for rarest. A Brooklyn Dodgers version with condition flaws recently sold for $2,000 at auction...

It is safe to say that these were never sold at the ballparks, as there would be more of them available today. Plus, they are obviously higher-end and were more expensive to make. My theory is that these were sold only at Department Stores (Macy's Gimbel's) and perhaps at FAO Schwartz and/or other upscale toy stores.

I guess we'll never know for sure, but it is a landmark piece, regardless. Please post more whan you have a chance (including the Washington pennant mentioned earlier... thanks!)

[thetahat]

I am attaching a couple of what I think are my rarest pennants. The first is the '24 Washington pennant, very plain looking. It seems to be very close to that '25 Pittsburgh pennant I mentioned before, except that the latter pennant had a batter graphic inside the baseball. The second pennant is a minor league pennant of the Newark Indians from 1913, as I understand it they were sort of a minor league team for Brooklyn, owned by Ebbets. This shows some wear and is missing about 2" off the tip.

I am also including, for the heck of it, one of my favorite pennants (Astros), albeit not a very old one. I think this was a Keezer pennant although it does not have the stamp on the back.

I'll post some more in the days ahead. Thanks for your input guys,

Greg

[baseballart]

The Newark and the first Giants ones are killers. Spectacular stuff.

Max

Edited to add: the Washington one is unworldly as well.

[HiNeighbor]

sweet stuff... thanks for posting!

[BrockJacob]

Awesome stuff Greg. That Giants pennant is truly jaw-dropping. And the '24 Washington pennant is beautiful as well. Thats a helluva way to start off on this board. Nicely done.

[lefty147]

Hi Greg, Nice to see your pictures here. You had emailed me some of those pictures after getting the pennant book and they are great to see again. I had actually forwarded a couple of those to "perezfan" to see. I was going to email you shortly anyway to get some single pictures of the ones that were not included. Mike

[perezfan]

Awesome collection... thanks for posting! The 1924 Washington is exceedingly rare and is easily worth a couple grand. Never seen another!

That's easily the best Astros Pennant around, and is seldom-seen as well. I have that one, and it took me years to find. There is a similar Angels Pennant from the same year/same manufacturer (and equally rare). I don't know if these are Keezers, though... in fact I would bet against it.

A big question for you... it looks like there is an oversized Blue Pennant to the right of the '46 Red Sox and under the Orioles Mini. 95% of the pennant is cut-off, but I am betting it's a Cubs Pennant from the teens (with the Swinging Bear Mascot). Can you possibly post a pic of this one (even if it's not the Cubbie?) Would love to see what it is...

Thanks again... you have a wonderful collection!

[perezfan]

Also wanted to add that I love the Lopez Limited Indians Pennant (seen in the mirror reflection). For me, that one is tied with the 1955 Bklyn/NY Fringed World Series Pennant, as best pennant of the '50s.

[Rob D.]

Here's an easier-to-see example of the Lopez Limited pennant Mark references:

[perezfan]

Thanks Rob...

That magnificant old train really just captures the era. What a pristine example, too... I love it even more on the jet black felt!

[jcmtiger]

Greg, do you have this one?

Joe

[thetahat]

Hi Joe,

No I don't but that's a fantastic pennant!!! I don't think I've ever seen one with a starting lineup! Condition looks amazing. Thanks for the picture and Happy New Year!

Greg

[thetahat]

Thanks for all your replies .... Mark, we've actually communicated before, I finally figured it out. Attached are a couple pictures, including the Cubs pennant you asked about.

Then I have a picture of some of my favorites, they are all from the same series (except for the Colt 45s) and have great graphics. My very favorite is the Reds pennant - looks like Brutus from old popeye cartoons, and for some reason he is holding a bomb. Can anyone explain this to me? Eventually I'd like to complete the 'set", I need six or seven more teams.

Happy New Year everyone, and thanks for the warm welcome!

[mjkm90]

Greg,

You have some super rare pennants in your amazing collection. I'm a Cubs/Tigers collector primarily. Thanks for posting the oversized Cubbie.

Can you tell us a bit about your collecting history? What all do you collect, areas of focus, what got you started, etc. It's always fun to hear about the evolution of collections on the memorabilia side.

[thetahat]

Hi Mike,

I guess it started when I was a kid - I'd get a pennant every time I went to a Phillies game. (I am from Southern New Jersey.) This was the late 70s and80s, so they were the paper ones, but still they looked nice on my bedroom wall. When I got older and wanted to decorate my basement/game room, I looked for similar cheap pennants at yard sales. I also stopped by Mitchell and Ness' store in Philly - this was right around the time they started making repros - at least I think it was. So I gobbled up a bunch of those. The one day I bought a bundle of vintage old pennants at a flea market, dirt cheap - they were mostly from the early 60s, lots of stadium pennants. From then on, repros wouldn't cut it, and my hobby grew and grew to the point where I need about three basements to display them all.

I guess I have a slight tendency towards Phillies pennants, but basically I like any pennants that look neat. I am at the point now that I strongly prefer pennants that are dated in some way. I guess I like STL Browns stuff, too, and would love to get or even see other variations besides the two or three we always see.

You have interest in two teams with beautiful pennants - the Tigers, of course, are the very best, especially all the dated ones from the 1930s thru (I think) 1951. The '51 all-star pennant with the city shield is one of the very best. The Cubs have nice ones, too .... I have one that is bright yellow and looks to be a large version of those mini-pennants from the late 30s.

Take care

Greg

[perezfan]

Greg...

GREAT stuff! I remember now, that we corresponded many months ago. It was about the oversized Cubs pennant and other things... right?

Thanks for posting the great set with the mascot on the left and the player vignette in the middle. That is one of my favorites too. I have found the St. Louis Browns to be the toughest, followed by the Boston Braves. I finally nailed down the Brownie a few years ago, but have been outbid on the Brave 3 times. It always goes for around $275 - $300.

There was a set of pins recently posted here on Net54 with the same exact mascots as in this set of pennants. It was interesting to see, as these particular unusual mascots have not been seen anywhere else. I traced this interesting pennant set to 1951, as a seller had a few of these- most of which were dated on the backs.

I share your interest in the Reds pennant (and great Avatar, btw!) That Mascot is vastly different than any other the Reds have ever had. Definitely more ominous than the friendly Mr. Red Baseball Head Guy. I have seen perhaps 5 of these in 20 years of collecting (Pennants + Reds stuff), and a few times it has been referred to as the "Mad Bomber" Pennant. I guess that's as good a name as any for it...

Thanks again for the terrific posts!

[perezfan]

Greg:

Thanks for posting the oversized Cubbie. I could tell from the tip of the Bat that probably was that one... what a beauty!

Quick final question... where did you find a plastic sleeve large enough to accomodate it? I have never been able to find these anywhere...

[cincicards]

100_0367.jpg

[perezfan]

Here's the Red Sox version from that series. Probably the 2nd or 3rd toughest from that set... a real toughie! I have others that I can't find right now. I think I know where the Tigers is, and will post it if I can find it...

[perezfan]

Here's a little closer view of the Pittsburgh one... freaky!

[thetahat]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the pictures. The weird thing about pennants from this series is that (a) they are pretty rare, yet (b) they seem to be in very good condition when you find them, often times close to mint. That Red Sox pennant of yours is amazing, must be the only one with the cartoon sock. I've seen two of the Browns, one went on Ebay not too long ago (this one was actually beat up some), it had a baseball scene as the primary logo. I also saw another version with a strange looking, full-bodied brownie.

Now you're right that 1951 makes sense, there's that Cubs anniversary pennant from this set that has '51 as the end date. Probably a range of a few years though since the Dodgers pennant says "NL Champs". I also think I once saw a Milwaukee Braves pennant with the same mascot as the Boston Braves pennant from this set that you mention.

Secondly, as far as the sheets for the oversized pennants, what you see is a cut-and-tape job made from three normal-sized pennant sheets. It doesn't look the greatest and I wanted to find a harder plastic and make my own cases for them, but this was the best I could come up with for now. They really should be framed, but then I'd have a tougher time displaying them with limited room on my walls.

Now here's a good question regarding your extensive collection of oversized pennants. I've never seen any of those 34" inchers of the Cardinals, Browns, and Phillies. Have you?

[perezfan]

There was a fabulous Mastro Auction many years ago that featured a miraculous find of 10 oversized Pennants from the early teens (probably 1913 to be exact). That section of the auction was titled "Mini Find of Maxi Felt". All 10 of the pennants remained NRMT or better (and all 10 were oversized).

7 of the 10 pennants featured a Manager's image on the left, with the other 3 (White Sox, Red Sox, Cubs) having a Team Mascot. Of the 7 Manager Pennants, the Cardinals and Phillies were BOTH included. The Cardinals was an incredible "Salt & Pepper" Red Felt with Miller Huggins depicted as the Manager. The Phillies was Navy Blue with Red Dooin as the Manager. They all sold for over $4,000 (with the Giants/McGraw Pennant going over $12K).

I have no isea where these unique pennants ended up, but I bet the majority went to a single collector (in the minute chance you are reading this, please post!) None of these have ever resurfaced in other auctions, and it has been well over a decade now...

As for the Phillies, there is another oversized version out there. It is also Navy Blue, with a giant blooming flower as the logo. It was featured in Mastro over a decade ago, and again in Huggins & Scott less than 2 years ago. I was under-bidder, and do not know who got it.

To your point, Greg, I have never seen a Browns or another Cardinals oversized version (aside from that amazing Miller Huggins version described above). Hope this info is helpful...

ps. If anyone reading this has access to that Mastro Catalogue with the "Mini Find of Maxi Felt" please snap a photo of that page and post it here. I want to say that Catalogue is from 1996 or so (give or take a couple years). Apparently, that auction was too early to make it into Legendary's archives. Thanks!

[thetahat]

That would be awesome to get a glimpse of those pennants. Hopefully someone has pictures from the auction. Thanks for the info mark!

Greg