1970s baseball pinbacks

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by icollectDCsports

Pretty simple design, but I really do like these. Some great players represented.

Can you take another picture of the Brooks pin when you have an opportunity since I see a bunch of other O's pins surrounding "the greatest third baseman of all time"? Love to see those other O's pins!

[71buc]

I would think it is safe to say this one could be a bit over priced?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-S...QAAOSwHQ9WUUwb

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by 71buc

I would think it is safe to say this one could be a bit over priced?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-S...QAAOSwHQ9WUUwb

At that price, I want free shipping!

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by 71buc

I would think it is safe to say this one could be a bit over priced?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-S...QAAOSwHQ9WUUwb

Hoochie, Mama! At that price can I buy multiples?

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by springpin

Rob,

Your comment about me tracing down the story behind these pins raises another dimension in being a pinback detective. I will say for the record that Howard and his connection is the only way this story will ever be known.

All the sleuthing on pins that I have ever done involved trying to tie together scattered clues from the past. I recall one person even asking me, "Why would anyone care about such stuff?" My only answer was, "I don't know, but I do."

The new dimension in this case pertains to legal issues---the selling of licensed images. This is a pinback story that not only is not known, but perhaps some people may wish to have it remain unknown. By now I believe the statute of limitations may have expired, or perhaps more simply, no one in MLB today cares what happened 40 years ago. Then again, maybe MLB might want to make this photographer a poster child for those who defy them. I think winning the trust of this person is critical, along with perhaps the assurance of anonymity in telling the story.

HI guys

1) I've been going through a separation and divorce for 2 years now and have not had the time I usually devote here.
2) I am the ebay seller offering the Clemente pin. Multiples can not be bought at any price as these pins in my experience are that scarce. I own the only 2 Clemente's I have ever seen. The only reason I am offering it for sale at all is to help fund #1 I hope I sell other items to raise the needed funds.
3) As far as the back story on the pins. Due to some of the potential issues mentioned in the quote above and the persons desire for privacy, I will not be using names. Parts of the story I am piecing together from 1 and 2 parties away from the source who led me there. Here goes:

The images were taken by a professional sports team photographer. Unclear if the images were done in studio or elsewhere, but the images were all originals. The photographer knew many of the ballplayers through association with the team he was photographer for. There was intention/discussion/plans, etc of getting a license. A second hand part of the story was that the person trusted to get the license gambled and lost the money that was to be used for the license. In any case, no license was ever secured. Distribution or lack thereof is a bit puzzling - I know an earlier post said he remembers them being sold outside a stadium - it is the only time I have heard that. A small batch of pins were made in advance of securing the license. I have been told (third hand)that the photographer gave them out to friends and family. The original photographer communicated to at least one person I spoke to that he was not allowed to sell the pins without a license. I have a small print of the Clemente. A large Clemente print 18x24 (This is almost certainly the same image from behind Vera's head - shown in an earlier post) sold in a Lelands auction back in 2007 (see image - clearly from the same shoot, but slightly different image - check the bat). I spoke directly with the family member of the original photographer who apparently still owns the negatives. He was very suspect of my jubilation and questions. He really didn't shed much light except confirm he has the negatives, confirm the "licensing issue", and asked not to be contacted. It seems there will remain more questions than answers about this issue.

It would be great if someone would take charge of compiling a checklist. Anyone have time, want to work on that?

I own: Clemente, Mays, McClain, Gaylord Perry. I owned a Pete Rose photo/"pin proof".

These pins are easily discernible by the high quality of the Player image set against a color background that fades to white in its center.

Hope that helps.

Howard

[ooo-ribay]

First of all, Howard, sorry if we were having fun with your price on the Clemente pin. I'm not sure you'll get it, but good luck. I had actually scribbled down a list, earlier, from this thread. Here's what I came up with:

Cubs - Pepitone, Santo, Williams, Hands, Popovich, Ortiz, Beckert, Jenkins

Red Sox - Scott, Conigliaro, Kennedy, Petrocelli, Josephson, Griffin, Culp, Yaz, Aparicio

Orioles - Powell, B. Robinson, F. Robinson, Palmer

Brewers - May, Bristol, Walton, Saunders, Harper, Hogan, Koslo, Loockwood, Pattin, Joss

Senators - McClain and Howard (rumored)

Reds - Rose and Bench photo proofs seen, but not actual pins.

Mays - Giants

Blue - A's

Clemente - Pirates

Seaver - Mets

Perry - Giants? (rumored)

Could be as many as 36 or 37, with definitely more when you count the variations in size, pose, finish and/or whether they have the facsimile autograph.

[hcv123]

No worries on the fun with the Clemente pin. I understand based on what other similar pins have sold for that the price seems astronomical. I know the story behind them and the likelihood that no more than a handful of any player exist. I have seen only 2 Clemente's in over 25 years of collecting (and own both currently). I have sold too many items in the past for way less than their known scarcity dictated(imo). I have found that eventually someone who really knows how scarce certain items and want to add them to their collections is willing to pay for them. I'll either have an incredibly scarce pin remain in my collection or get what I believe to be a fair price for it.

As a point of information on the checklist - I never saw a finished pin of the Rose - only a proof/photo. Did someone else report owning or seeing a Rose pin?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by hcv123

As a point of information on the checklist - I never saw a finished pin of the Rose - only a proof/photo. Did someone else report owning or seeing a Rose pin?

No, I think you're right. I revised the list to reflect the Bench and Rose photo "proofs."

Is Gaylord Perry pictured as a GIANT? Would you mind posting a picture? If you have any thoughts of selling, please PM me.

[hcv123]

So the Clemente is sold. I have attached pictures of the Clemente with and without autograph - the plot thickens.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by hcv123

So the Clemente is sold. I have attached pictures of the Clemente with and without autograph - the plot thickens.

WOW!! Congrats on getting your price.

[ooo-ribay]

Good for you, Howard!

How about a picture of the Perry?

[hcv123]

I am not sure where I put the Perry. I definitely have it. I will post when I find it.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I am not sure where I put the Perry. I definitely have it. I will post when I find it.

When you find it, you might want to sell it to me.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

When you find it, you might want to sell it to me.

[71buc]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

First of all, Howard, sorry if we were having fun with your price on the Clemente pin. I'm not sure you'll get it, but good luck. I had actually scribbled down a list, earlier, from this thread. Here's what I came up with:

Cubs - Pepitone, Santo, Williams, Hands, Popovich, Ortiz, Beckert, Jenkins

Red Sox - Scott, Conigliaro, Kennedy, Petrocelli, Josephson, Griffin, Culp, Yaz, Aparicio

Orioles - Powell, B. Robinson, F. Robinson, Palmer

Brewers - May, Bristol, Walton, Saunders, Harper, Hogan, Koslo, Loockwood, Pattin, Joss

Senators - McClain and Howard (rumored)

Reds - Rose and Bench photo proofs seen, but not actual pins.

Mays - Giants

Blue - A's

Clemente - Pirates

Seaver - Mets

Perry - Giants? (rumored)

Could be as many as 36 or 37, with definitely more when you count the variations in size, pose, finish and/or whether they have the facsimile autograph.

I just came across this photo of Pirate coach Frank Oceak in a SABR article. http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/0d29600d I can't imagine Frank was destined to be on a pinback. So perhaps the "photo proofs" were really just photos never destined to be pinbacks? The Oceak photo was provided for the article "courtesy of the Pittsburgh Pirates". Perhaps this photographer was a Pirate team photographer?

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by 71buc

I just came across this photo of Pirate coach Frank Oceak in a SABR article. http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/0d29600d I can't imagine Frank was destined to be on a pinback. So perhaps the "photo proofs" were really just photos never destined to be pinbacks? The Oceak photo was provided for the article "courtesy of the Pittsburgh Pirates". Perhaps this photographer was a Pirate team photographer?

I heard something about a dinner back in the early 70's at which there were some blowups of Clemente (and perhaps other Pirates?). Supposedly those images still exist somewhere. The photographer was not the Pirates team photographer - Les Banos was the team photographer.

The Rose "proof" that I had was small and square - approximately "pin size". The Clemente print I have is larger - I think 3x5. Whoever has the Bench - what are the measurements?

[ooo-ribay]

I'm now wondering about the background colors, too. Did the photographer have pinkish, blue, green, etc. backdrops or were colors somehow added after the photos were taken in front of a, say, white background?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by hcv123

The Rose "proof" that I had was small and square - approximately "pin size". The Clemente print I have is larger - I think 3x5. Whoever has the Bench - what are the measurements?

Bench is not mine, but judging from the fingerprint in the lower right, I'm gonna guess 4x6 or 5x7.

[thansen30]

I bought my Joe Pepitone pin at Wrigley Field in 1971--I can't recall whether it was inside the ballpark or at a stand outside the park, but i DO recall purchasing it from a concessions stand after a game. That's what got me started on this damn thing in the first place.
About the backgrounds--it's highly unlikely that the backgrounds were retouched to alter the colors. The "technology" was too limited back then, and given the odd nature of this product i doubt the creator would have invested the time and effort to alter the backgrounds via composite or retouching. I do think they were shot against a colored background (a "sweep" in photo terms).
i've always wondered if the photographer got players as they came through his town, shot in a studio setting with multiple backdrop sweeps available (that's standard for commercial photo studios--they typically have dozens on hand), but everyone seems to be shot in their "home" jerseys, and it's unlikely that teams would have brought home uniforms with them on the road.
The Pepitone pin shows him wearing road pants and home jersey. Maybe these were shot during spring training (very likely) in either FLA or AZ . . . or both

[whiteymet]

Hi Guys:

I just picked up the Billy Conigliaro pin from this super tough set. I will be posting it on the B/S/T forum.

Sorry for the bad photo!

PM me if interested.

Fred

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by thansen30

For what it's worth, the seven 1971 Cubs stadium pinbacks I have--most are 3" and matte; two are 3.5" and glossy

Here is a 3" Don Kessinger. I have seen the Ernie Banks pin from this set but I don't have any photos of it. I also have the 3.5" versions of Glenn Beckert and Joe Pepitone.

[thansen30]

at long last, here is the Ernie Banks pin. 3" this is the only copy i've seen after years of wondering!

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by thansen30

at long last, here is the Ernie Banks pin. 3" this is the only copy i've seen after years of wondering!

Congrats Tom!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I own: Clemente, Mays, McClain, Gaylord Perry.

Bump. I still want to see the Gaylord Perry. I have an ebay search for it but still don't know if it really exists.

[DeafSports]

I would love to see a scan on Seaver. Only one mets pin? I would imagine they would make few especially after winning the pennant in 1969.

Nice stuff and thread!

[ooo-ribay]

Here's the super rare Friars Cub pin using the Willie Mays image from this series.

Hammered? Oh, yeah. Happy to have it? Oh, yeah.

[jimm]

FAScINATING STUFF... is there a more modern 80s Giants or other Pinback thread?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by jimm

FAScINATING STUFF... is there a more modern 80s Giants or other Pinback thread?

Not per se, but 50+ pages of pin info here and links to some other pin threads, within.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=166056

[jimm]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Not per se, but 50+ pages of pin info here and links to some other pin threads, within.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=166056

Thanks I will post my meager stuff... maybe one you dont have (but I doubt it)

[thansen30]

stumbled upon this just now in a 2006 Mastro auction catalog. maybe the same item in Howard's earlier post. Different take than the one used in the pin but maybe the same shoot? Who knows

[ksfarmboy]

Here’s another Pirate player we can add as far as photos go.

[jimtigers65]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Here's the super rare Friars Cub pin using the Willie Mays image from this series.

Hammered? Oh, yeah. Happy to have it? Oh, yeah.

Always enjoy seeing what you have. Thanks for sharing your collection.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ksfarmboy

Here’s another Pirate player we can add as far as photos go.

Jackie Hernandez?

[ksfarmboy]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Jackie Hernandez?

Yes it’s Hernandez.

[ooo-ribay]

I'm glad this thread got revived. Still waiting to see the rumored Gaylord Perry...

[ksfarmboy]

I did find a picture of a Lee Richard pin of the White Sox. The photo is too small to post but it was one previously unknown at least on this thread.

[thansen30]

have never seen a white sox player in this series--would love to see that pin regardless of the lo-res!

[ksfarmboy]

Here you go Tom. If you search Tom Seaver button or pin on goggle you can find that one too. I found this one searching Ernie Banks pin. You can see it better that way.
https://www.google.com/search?q=erni...WwpATWEQ0V-qCM

[ksfarmboy]

Here’s the Seaver
https://www.google.com/search?q=tom+...gTVhcFYm7-lYiM

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

First of all, Howard, sorry if we were having fun with your price on the Clemente pin. I'm not sure you'll get it, but good luck. I had actually scribbled down a list, earlier, from this thread. Here's what I came up with:

Cubs - Pepitone, Santo, Williams, Hands, Popovich, Ortiz, Beckert, Jenkins

Red Sox - Scott, Conigliaro, Kennedy, Petrocelli, Josephson, Griffin, Culp, Yaz, Aparicio

Orioles - Powell, B. Robinson, F. Robinson, Palmer

Brewers - May, Bristol, Walton, Saunders, Harper, Hogan, Koslo, Loockwood, Pattin, Joss

Senators - McClain and Howard (rumored)

White Sox - Richard

Reds - Rose and Bench photo proofs seen, but not actual pins.

Mays - Giants

Blue - A's

Clemente - Pirates

Seaver - Mets

Perry - Giants? (rumored)

Could be as many as 37 or 38, with definitely more when you count the variations in size, pose, finish and/or whether they have the facsimile autograph.

Updated with Lee Richard

[Cliff Bowman]

Add another one to the Cubs checklist, that's a 3" inch Randy Hundley pin in that scan. I believe there is a Ken Holtzman 3" pin, there was a negative that was on eBay a few years ago that was described by the seller as being used for a pin. There is also a mystery pin on this guys hat in Wrigley Field from a 1973 photo, it's the one to the left of the Popovich pin. Anyone have an idea who the player is? Possibly Milt Pappas? The others known are Ernie Banks, Glenn Beckert, Bill Hands, Fergie Jenkins, Don Kessinger, Jose Ortiz (need), Paul Popovich, Ron Santo, Billy Williams. The 3 1/2" versions that I know of are Ernie Banks (need), Glenn Beckert, Joe Pepitone, Ron Santo.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

First of all, Howard, sorry if we were having fun with your price on the Clemente pin. I'm not sure you'll get it, but good luck. I had actually scribbled down a list, earlier, from this thread. Here's what I came up with:

Cubs - Pepitone, Santo, Williams, Hands, Popovich, Ortiz, Beckert, Jenkins, Hundley

Red Sox - Scott, Conigliaro, Kennedy, Petrocelli, Josephson, Griffin, Culp, Yaz, Aparicio

Orioles - Powell, B. Robinson, F. Robinson, Palmer

Brewers - May, Bristol, Walton, Saunders, Harper, Hogan, Koslo, Loockwood, Pattin, Joss

Senators - McClain and Howard (rumored)

Reds - Rose and Bench photo proofs seen, but not actual pins.

Mays - Giants

Blue - A's

Clemente - Pirates

Seaver - Mets

Perry - Giants? (rumored)

Could be as many as 38 or 39, with definitely more when you count the variations in size, pose, finish and/or whether they have the facsimile autograph.

Updated.

[Chris Counts]

I somehow missed this thread during its first eight years, but I discovered it about two weeks ago. After reading it, I decided I needed one of these beauties for my completely unfocused collection, so I dove into eBay to see what I could find. I really have no idea what they are worth. My search (I tried many keywords) turned up only two of them, an Ernie Banks for $250 and a Vida Blue for $30. Since Vida was one of my boyhood favorites, the choice was easy.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Updated.

Ernie Banks and Don Kessinger are confirmed as Cubs.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Chris Counts

I somehow missed this thread during its first eight years, but I discovered it about two weeks ago. After reading it, I decided I needed one of these beauties for my completely unfocused collection, so I dove into eBay to see what I could find. I really have no idea what they are worth. My search (I tried many keywords) turned up only two of them, an Ernie Banks for $250 and a Vida Blue for $30. Since Vida was one of my boyhood favorites, the choice was easy.

Hi Chris,
Here is your boy, Vida Blue in 2019. I liked him as well, BTW
A friend of mine just did a private signing with him a couple of months ago.

[MK]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Add another one to the Cubs checklist, that's a 3" inch Randy Hundley pin in that scan. I believe there is a Ken Holtzman 3" pin, there was a negative that was on eBay a few years ago that was described by the seller as being used for a pin. There is also a mystery pin on this guys hat in Wrigley Field from a 1973 photo, it's the one to the left of the Popovich pin. Anyone have an idea who the player is? Possibly Milt Pappas? The others known are Ernie Banks, Glenn Beckert, Bill Hands, Fergie Jenkins, Don Kessinger, Jose Ortiz (need), Paul Popovich, Ron Santo, Billy Williams. The 3 1/2" versions that I know of are Ernie Banks (need), Glenn Beckert, Joe Pepitone, Ron Santo.

There is a Milt Pappas.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by MK

There is a Milt Pappas.

Fantastic! There should be a Jim Hickman and a Johnny Callison, unless they didn’t want to participate that day.

[thansen30]

mind blown. I have scoured Chicago-area card shows for several decades looking for these pins and have never seen a White Sox player. This mystery just keeps getting better!

[thansen30]

i'd say that IS Milt Pappas on the side of that guy's hat . . .

[ooo-ribay]

OK....so I'm a little OCD.

Here's the updated updated, properly alphabetized and sub-alphabetized.

A's - Blue

Brewers - Bristol, Harper, Hogan, Joss, Koslo, Lockwood, May, Pattin, Saunders, Walton.

Cubs - Banks, Beckert, Hands, Hundley, Jenkins, Kessinger, Ortiz, Pappas, Pepitone, Popovich, Santo, Williams.

Giants - Mays (incl. Friars Club variations), Perry(?).

Mets - Seaver.

Orioles - Palmer, Powell, B. Robinson, F. Robinson.

Pirates - Clemente (Hernandez and Oceak photo proofs seen, but not actual pins).

Reds - (Bench and Rose photo proofs seen, but not actual pins)

Red Sox - Aparicio, B. Conigliaro, Culp, Griffin, Josephson, Kennedy, Petrocelli, Scott, Yaz.

Senators - McClain, Howard(?).

White Sox - Richard

Looks like 41 known, with Howard and Perry rumored. Size, pose, finish and/or whether they have the facsimile autograph can vary.