T206 scam on ebay

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Posted By: Bob

The T206 Plank with "peeled" blank back on ebay for sale right now is from the same seller who bought a T206 Plank (advertised as a reprint)reprint a little while ago.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31719&item=1986400319

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Posted By: leon

Hey Bob,
Your observation is certainly appreciated. Quite honestly I think there is a large sense of apathy on the board about folks trying to do good and call attention to fraud. This particular one is so bad that most folks, especially on this board, take it with a grain of salt and ignore it totally.....best regards

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Posted By: runscott

Many board members live in "insulated card collector land" and are bored with us calling attention to this stuff, since it doesn't affect them directly.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Doesn't bother me to see it just beucase there have a been a few people that said these warnings helped them steer clear of something they were thinking of bidding on. That right there makes it worthwhile to see these posts.

Most of us can spot them, but we need to remember, there are a lot of lurkers out there, many of which are just learning about vintage cards.

Jay

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Posted By: Hankron

More than once, my experience with alerting people about a fake has been that the seller threatens to sue you and the bidder ignores the advice anyway (I'd include eBay ignoring the situation, but that's goes without saying). It has long been my experience that, in a variety of venues, the surest way to get into trouble is to tell the truth.

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Posted By: Elliot

What's everybody's opinion of this card

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31719&item=2715441756&rd=1

I thought it was probably fake given the seller's reputation, but I wasn't sure....and at the end a bunch of bids came in, including some from people that post here.

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Posted By: RC_McKenzie

I just assumed it was a fake because that seller had been noted on here for selling fakes. I dunno. Not a bargain either way.

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Posted By: leon

The buyer got a good deal and I thought the seller was ok....I could have swore I have done business with him before. At any rate I think it was a good deal if the card is good. It looks good from the scan....best regards

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

the white around the edges is a dead giveaway.........twistedfan is WELL known here for passing fakes........botn is bottom of the ninth I believe.

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Posted By: Toto

Leon,
Don't you remember, you bought the Pete Rose RC from him, that I pointed out had the "Dot Matrix" pattern on his hat. You know that means COUNTERFIT.

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

"Most men have a complacent policy of indifference to Evil" Benjamin Franklin

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Posted By: leon

Whatever you want to be called....the only Rose RC I have I bought about 4 years ago in a Teletrade auction and still have it. It's in a PSA 7 holder......as you know I have many 40's, 50's, and 60's cards becuase I used to collect ALL RC HOF'ers.....regards all

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Posted By: leon

After looking at the back of the Mayo, which has some unusually "white" markings, I guess I would need to see it in person to make the call on it's authenticity. The seller, Twistedfan, does have a reprint/fake Goudey Ruth in his ebay store......so that ain't too good.....regards again

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Posted By: runscott

JMO

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Posted By: BOTN

I was the lucky winner of the card and it is a reprint. The seller has offered a money back guarantee. Guess it is like most of the guarantees in the hobby--not worth much.

The card was sent back immediately. He has not returned any of my e-mails nor telephone calls. In fact he has refused the returned card as sent by Federal Express.

Unfortunately for him we live 45 minutes from one another.

Stay clear of him. His name is Kevin Neff out of Santa Ana CA.

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Posted By: JC

Just stop payment on your credit card. That's the only way anyone should buy cards that are over 200.00 from a first time seller.

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Posted By: botn

Wish it were that easy.

I go to Orange County, where he lives, alomst every week. Will just sue him in Small Claims.

I have been on eBay since 1997 and have been involved in thousands of transactions totaling several hundred thousand dollars of purchases and sales. This is the first time that I have been involved with any kind of scam.

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Posted By: MW

Greg,

I hope you get the bastard. Make sure you keep detailed records of everything including the original eBay transaction, emails, phone conversations, postage records, etc. Also, make sure you send the card to several hobby experts and have them draft a letter (notarized) that explains the fraudulent nature of the Mayo. Finally, keep a detailed account of all the expenses you incur, including the time you have invested.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

I found an email response (below) I received last October from this seller when I told him an OJ he was selling was fake. Not exactly an accomplished liar, is he? I hope you get your refund and he gets what's coming.

"Well That is not to fair of you accusing me of selling fake cards when you don't have then in hand. Just because they have writing on the back dose not mean that they are fakes. I Have seen many old judge cards with stamps, writing and so on on the back for sale on ebay and in person. I see that you are selling cards also and may not be real so I guess I should also go forward with this. If you feel that the card are no good for you then don't bid but others may like what they see and when they get there card if there unhappy I will refund them."

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Posted By: botn

Thanks guys.

Mike,

I have had a dealer who deals in 19th century give me a notarized opinion on the card. My phone bill will show the number of times that I have called him. I also have high resolution scans of his counterfeit and real Ewings. All of this is well documented. Will take this post as well as copies of his negative feedback and march into court.

Most important is being able to shut this loser down so he does not continue to screw over people.

Here was his e-mail to me before I paid him.

Hello Greg! Im sorry to hear that there is people bad-mouthing me and sorry that you are getting e-mailed. Now on this card, I went over this card with a fine tooth comb, I used a 10x Mag glass and look for signs of counterfeiting. something's I look for is (Laser printing lines, DPI Printing, forged ageing like cutting of corners, creasing sun ageing, and Card stock is it glued together or 1 piece and last the photo it self, a counterfeit card will look like it needs dusting. I will also research the type of printing used in that era). I will do this with all my cards I sell and if it turns out to be a fake, I will list it as that. I offer a 5 Day return policy for if any reason you are unhappy, return it and I will refund your money.
Thanks
Kevin

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Posted By: botn

Refund received. Case closed. Turned out to be a man of his word. Had to apply more pressure than I like but...

Thanks,
Greg

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Posted By: Elliot

now he will just move on to the next guy, who might not be aware that it is a reprint within that 5 day window of opportunity. You received your refund because he doesn't want trouble while he can continue his little scam.

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Posted By: Hankron

Irrelevant to what a seller may say during the action or after, there is no 5 day minimum return period if the item sold is fake.

Simularly, a seller's proclimation that "All sales are final" means absolutely nothing if he or she sells a forgery or fake. Many scammers feel that statements like this absolve them of any responsibility, but that is not the case.

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Posted By: Hankron

I agree with Elliot's comments. The seller has a lengthy and noted history, and likely offered the refund due to Greg's pressure. When someone sells 10 counterfeits, I find it hard to swallow that the eleventh was an honest mistake.

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Posted By: Botn

Hi Guys,

Rest assured that I have contacted my Power Seller Rep. He may not stop but he should be discouraged. I have offered to have the negative feedback removed. In hindsight maybe I should have left there as a warning to others.

Thanks,
Greg

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Posted By: warshawlaw

We often focus too little on right and wrong, what with our government acting liked an angry 3-year-old in the sandbox and all, but we should.

I had a perfect example this morning. At 6:30 a.m. I was putting out a pile of used stuff for the local church rescue mission to pick up. I went inside to get one more item and as I come back outside some jerk is already loading the stuff from my curbside into his van. Now, do I confront him or let it go? The easy thing to do is walk away since, ultimately, I don't want the stuff anyway. The right thing to do is at least try to preserve the donation for the church. We have an angry fight in the street and I end up calling the cops, which makes him put the stuff back. An hour later, my neighbor calls me and tells me that the guy just loaded up his van and took the stuff again. So, the bastard got my stuff but I got a police report in there and if he is stopped, there will be a jacket already waiting for him. Did I "win"? No. The cops have more important things to do than chase guys who rip off charitable donations, especially today. But did I do the right thing? Yes. Will I do it again even knowing that I won't get anything out of it? Yes.

Keep exposing rip-offs here not because it is rewarding but because it is the right thing to do.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

The seller has been summarily executed by eBay. Good riddance!