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  #1  
Old 12-26-2018, 09:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Are the "T213-1" (1910 COUPON) cards really T206's ? ....I think so....What say you ?

An often repeated excuse from the naysayers...."It's the thinner cardboard stock which the 1910 COUPON cards were printed on that disqualifies
them from being considered T206's.
" This thinking is really ridiculous. My question to you naysayers is this....Then how come you don't DISCARD
the AMERICAN BEAUTY (AB) cards, since their card dimensions are inconsistent with all the other T206's ? ?

Well of course that is as ridiculous as the above comment regarding the 1910 COUPON's. It's all the same difference. Both AB and 1910 COUPON
cards differ from the other T206's due to Cigarette pack factors. American Lithographic trimmed the AB cards in anticipation of ATC's intention of
narrowing down AB cigarette packs (however, this never occurred). And, the 1910 COUPON cards were never meant to be used as cigarette pack
stiffeners. Since this new brand (introduced circa 1909-1910) was packaged as loose cigarettes in 200-count cartons labelled COUPON Cigarettes.
Such a cigarette carton is seen in Jeremy's 2016 thread (post #37).. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...+COUPON&page=4

Incidentally, no standard cigarette pack of that era has ever been reported that would have contained 1910 COUPON cards. And, I do not expect
that one will ever surface.
Therefore, my theory is that 1910 COUPON cards were either placed inside these 200-count cartons....or were pasted on these cartons. The latter
case would certainly explain the recurring paper loss found on quite a number of these cards' backs.

Here are some examples from my 1910 COUPON collection, which have the typical "glue spot" paper loss on the upper part of the backs (possibly
due to the cards having been pasted on cartons)......


.


.


.




P.S. Jeff Burdick's accomplishments in our hobby (Sportscards & Non-Sportscards) are amazing. And, if he had the benefit of the Internet,
I have no doubt that the 1910 COUPON cards would have been catalogued alongwith the 15 other basic T-brands in the T206 set.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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Last edited by tedzan; 01-03-2019 at 06:41 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2018, 10:11 PM
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Cozumeleno Cozumeleno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
P.S.[/b] Jeff Burdick's accomplishments in our hobby (Sportscards & Non-Sportscards) are amazing. And, if he had the benefit of the Internet,
I have no doubt that the 1910 COUPON cards would have been catalogued alongwith the 15 other basic T-brands in the T206 set.
I agree, Ted. I won't rehash all of the points I made previously but, in summary, same fronts, same font, same back ad design as others. Burdick noted in his book that the Coupons were printed in 1914-15. Had he known that the T213-1s were printed earlier, I don't really see a reason why he wouldn't have classified them as T206.

I suppose there could be an argument that he thought it was more important to keep them grouped with the other Coupons since they shared the same fronts as T213-2 and T213-3. But I also wonder if he might have reconsidered had he realized T213-1 was printed earlier during the T206 time frame.
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2018, 10:31 PM
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Until the American Card Catalog is rewritten they will remain T213-1. It doesn't matter what anyone says, it is what it is. Some things in the English language don't make perfect sense either. Maybe Burdick should have made them T206s but he clearly didn't. They are simply T213-1, Coupons.
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:09 PM
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Put me in the they are T206's camp. There's just too many similarities for them not to be.
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:31 PM
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Hi, Ted, Happy Holidays. This topic reminds me of standing before a Shakespeare class and explaining that 'Shakespeare' is just a pen name. It makes the crowd upset.

My only concern in this post is the theory about paper loss on the back. I have not noticed a pattern of paper loss on the ones I have. Take care, all.
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  #6  
Old 12-27-2018, 09:02 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say you ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozumeleno View Post
I agree, Ted. I won't rehash all of the points I made previously but, in summary, same fronts, same font, same back ad design as others. Burdick noted in his book that the Coupons were printed in 1914-15. Had he known that the T213-1s were printed earlier, I don't really see a reason why he wouldn't have classified them as T206.

I suppose there could be an argument that he thought it was more important to keep them grouped with the other Coupons since they shared the same fronts as T213-2 and T213-3. But I also wonder if he might have reconsidered had he realized T213-1 was printed earlier during the T206 time frame.
Cozumeleno

I appreciate your very concise response regarding this matter of the 1910 COUPON cards.

Thanks,

TED Z

T206 Reference
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Old 12-27-2018, 10:21 AM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is online now
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no they are not t206s

but always fun to discuss for the fiftieth time
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Last edited by RedsFan1941; 12-27-2018 at 10:22 AM.
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  #8  
Old 12-27-2018, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsFan1941 View Post
no they are not t206s
Of course they aren't. Burdick looked at the cards, they all had similar fronts but not exact and had the same brand of cigarette on the back. No other T206 ad back group has the characteristics of the T213 Coupon set. Or show me one with a blue caption or on paper stock.

This is a quote from Burdick on the series, and found in the ACC-
"T213- Baseball Series. Coupon Cigarettes, designs of T206. 2 types, names in brown as NO. T206 or name in blue. On card or heavy paper. Issued 1914-1915 and includes Federal League. Many team changes. Name in blue value .35"

He knew they were similar but didn't make them T206, it really is as easy as that. They shoulda, woulda, coulda have been something else. But alas, they aren't

.
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Last edited by Leon; 12-27-2018 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 12-27-2018, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Of course they aren't. Burdick looked at the cards, they all had similar fronts but not exact and had the same brand of cigarette on the back. No other T206 ad back group has the characteristics of the T213 Coupon set. Or show me one with a blue caption or on paper stock.

This is a quote from Burdick on the series, and found in the ACC-
"T213- Baseball Series. Coupon Cigarettes, designs of T206. 2 types, names in brown as NO. T206 or name in blue. On card or heavy paper. Issued 1914-1915 and includes Federal League. Many team changes. Name in blue value .35"

He knew they were similar but didn't make them T206, it really is as easy as that. They shoulda, woulda, coulda have been something else. But alas, they aren't

.
Yet Burdick only mentioned two types when in reality there are three so he made a mistake regarding this as well! We all now recognize that there are 3 types of coupons...there is no dispute! Mistakes are made and what's important is that they are corrected.

Last edited by ullmandds; 12-27-2018 at 10:55 AM.
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2018, 11:00 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say y

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie View Post
Hi, Ted, Happy Holidays. This topic reminds me of standing before a Shakespeare class and explaining that 'Shakespeare' is just a pen name. It makes the crowd upset.

My only concern in this post is the theory about paper loss on the back. I have not noticed a pattern of paper loss on the ones I have. Take care, all.

Rob

Happy Holidays to you....and, I got a over your "Shakespeare" analogy.

Here is another one of my cards with a back problem. This one, though, only has cardboard residue on it from being pasted on a cigarette carton.
Which I'd say proves my theory that some of these 1910 COUPON cards were pasted on the COUPON Cigarette cartons.


.



TED Z

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