NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-26-2010, 09:33 PM
michael3322 michael3322 is offline
Michael
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 261
Default 1st African American Baseball card?

Hi everyone. Happy holidays / new year.

Is this very rare Between the Acts 1880-92 tobacco card (N344) of Frank Hart considered the first card depicting a black baseball player? Are there any records of him playing baseball?

It was just auctioned off in Nov for $931.

Please post information if you have it. Thanks.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-26-2010, 09:41 PM
egbeachley's Avatar
egbeachley egbeachley is offline
Eric Bea.chley
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 920
Default

The bottom of the card refers to him as a "Pedestrian". At that time the 6-day races were very popular. this is where you raced for 6-days while resting as much or as little as you felt was necessary. Frank Hart was world champion when he covered 565 miles in the 6-days.

They also did the 6-day races for bicycling. At the time they were the most popular sport in America and the reason they were 6-days long and not 7 was to prevent the event from occurring on a Sunday.

Would be very interesting to see how modern training would translate to these event now.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-27-2010, 06:10 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,093
Default

Don't know on baseball but there are a lot of boxers going back as far as the 1880s.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-27-2010, 07:28 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,301
Default not baseball

That is a Pedestrian (Between the Acts) card worth around $100-$150. The guy might have played baseball but that is not a baseball card.
__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-27-2010, 03:02 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,376
Default

According to "The Early Image of Black Base Ball" by James Brunson, Frank Hart played briefly with the Bridgewater Black Stockings. I would not however consider that card to be a baseball card.

http://books.google.com/books?id=hGD...raphed&f=false
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-27-2010, 03:25 PM
D. Bergin's Avatar
D. Bergin D. Bergin is offline
Dave
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 6,100
Default

I think the question was "Is this the first card depicting a black baseball player", not "Is this a baseball card".

It's certainly a tobacco card. While I have no idea the answer, I think it's a pretty valid question if he indeed did have a history of playing baseball.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-27-2010, 03:55 PM
michael3322 michael3322 is offline
Michael
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 261
Default

Thanks for all of your comments / thoughts on this. Yes, I think the question should be reframed to ask if this is the first card to depict an African American baseball player.

Here is the description that accompanied the Mile High Auction from November:

Frank "Black Dan" Hart was an international endurance racing superstar in the 1870s and 1880s, when ultramarathons called "six day, go as you please" races occupied and obsessed the sporting worlds on both sides of the Atlantic, much like today's NFL. The rules were simple. Participants, called "pedestrians," were free to run, walk, crawl, and scratch their way around an oval track as many times as possible in the course of six days, sleeping on cots within the oval, and usually for less than four hours per day. Fans attended and followed these races with the enthusiasm of modern day college football tailgaters, coming and going as they pleased, and often betting on their favorite racers. In 1880, Frank Hart shattered the world pedestrian record by covering 565 miles when he claimed the O'Leary Belt in New York City, famously waving the American flag to thousands upon thousands of cheering (and no doubt jeering) fans packed into Madison Square Garden as he completed his final laps. His significance as an early black American athlete is hard to qualify. After national interest in six day racing fizzled, Hart played baseball for a Chicago Negro League team before passing away in 1908, his racing accomplishments nearly as forgotten as his baseball statistics, but for those who saw him, and for those who cheered for him, Frank Hart gave hope to untold thousands of fans of all races that is was possible for blacks and whites to compete on the same playing fields. Offered in this lot is a phenomenally scarce 1880 Between the Acts & Bravo example depicting Hart at the height of his racing career. Manufactured by New York's Thomas H. Hall, and subsequently catalogued by Jefferson Burdick as N344 in the American Card Catalog, the issue is well-known if not somewhat mythical among advanced 19th century non-sport collectors, somewhat like Gypsy Queens among baseball collectors. Both PSA and SGC report just a single example on record for most of the 12-card set, but neither company has graded all 12, and the lone Hart example on both company's records, our consignor assures us, is one and the same. Offered here in an SGC 20 holder, the card shows paper loss on back but is in otherwise exceptional EX to EX/MT condition, and is one of the only known examples in the entire hobby, raw or graded. An intriguing acquisition for the 19th century tobacco and Negro League collector alike, and one of the only instances in the hobby where these two separate worlds cross paths.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-27-2010, 04:42 PM
kkkkandp's Avatar
kkkkandp kkkkandp is offline
{K.e.v.i.n_C.u.m.m.i.n.g.s}
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Closter, NJ
Posts: 1,100
Default George Treadway

If you read his biography in the Old Judge book, George Treadway might be the first black baseball player depicted on his own card.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg treadway.jpg (33.2 KB, 304 views)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-27-2010, 04:45 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,093
Default

Thought these might be of historical interest, though neither is African-American (Jackson was West Indian/Australian, Godfrey Canadian), as they are very early depictions of black athletes:



__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-27-2010, 05:32 PM
Fred's Avatar
Fred Fred is offline
Fred
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,011
Default

Should the question really be - Who is the first black player to be depicted on a "baseball" card that was widely distributed as a major issue?

The Old Judge book mentions Treadway. The next issue I'm aware of is Zeenut (1916 Claxton). Prior to Treadway the Claxton card seemed to be the widely accepted "first black player" depicted in a major issue. The price of the Claxton reflects that it is a very special card.

By the way Kevin, who wrote that beautiful Treadway biography for "The Book"? That is an interesting piece of information that most people don't realize because they haven't read all of the biographies. There's just so much that people don't realize about "The Book".
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something
cool you're looking to find a new home for.

Last edited by Fred; 12-27-2010 at 05:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-27-2010, 05:51 PM
Northviewcats Northviewcats is offline
Joe Drouillard
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,896
Default Because I live in Toledo...

I've always been interested in the story of Moses Fleetwood Walker. Some historians say he was the first Black to play in the major league in 1884. I've seen his photograph, is there a card or postcard that features Walker that could be considered a baseball card?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-27-2010, 05:59 PM
byrone byrone is offline
Brian Macdonald
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Prince Edward Island
Posts: 332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Thought these might be of historical interest, though neither is African-American (Jackson was West Indian/Australian, Godfrey Canadian), as they are very early depictions of black athletes:



George Godfrey was from my hometown, Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island. I always thought it was interesting trivia that he was the first black man to appear on a card.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:14 PM
tlwise12's Avatar
tlwise12 tlwise12 is offline
Travis Wise
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Nicholasville, KY
Posts: 718
Default George Treadway....

Sorry if this is a dumb question but what about george treadway? I used to have "the book" but have sold it...

Travis
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:49 PM
Fred's Avatar
Fred Fred is offline
Fred
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,011
Default

Travis,

You'll have to buy "The Book"again to get the details!

The following is part of the bio:

Treadway was driven out of baseball by opposing players and fans that bombarded him with taunts and slurs about his alleged or real Negro blood. Everywhere he played, they screamed "N-word!" at him until he couldn't stand it any longer and he quit. After two games with the Louisville Colonels in 1896 he was gone from the majors.

This is part of the bio in "The Book". Arguably one of the best damn baseball card books to be published. It's dedicated to the N172 Old Judge cards. To get a copy of "The Book" email Richard Masson:

Richard@ponymass.com

This book is packed with so much great information on the Old Judge cards and the players that are depicted on the cards.
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something
cool you're looking to find a new home for.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-28-2010, 04:26 PM
talkinbaseball talkinbaseball is offline
John
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 596
Default zeenut

the Claxton card is on e-bay right now as a buy it now or best offer.
-john-
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-28-2010, 08:58 PM
Fred's Avatar
Fred Fred is offline
Fred
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,011
Default

That Claxton has been up there for a while now. At $5K I think most people will pass on it in that condition. Perhaps the seller should send it to a 3rd party grader (SGC, Beckett or PSA). That might actually help the cause in selling the card.
__________________
fr3d c0wl3s - always looking for OJs and other 19th century stuff. PM or email me if you have something
cool you're looking to find a new home for.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
baseball, frank hart, negro league, tobacco card




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LARGE List of Autographed Cards All Sports (1940s-2000s) canjond Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T 0 06-28-2010 12:38 PM
1908-09 BB card Wars....RAMLY vs American Caramel Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 15 03-02-2009 10:38 AM
FS: My entire 1980s Baseball Card Collection! HUGE LOT! PSA/BGS Archive 1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T 2 03-05-2008 02:34 PM
1st Posthumous card released??? also, declared value question Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 6 05-03-2006 06:03 PM
Baseball and Card Collecting Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 6 07-20-2004 05:49 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:11 AM.


ebay GSB