Card grading ?'s

[GrayGhost]

Now, I understand the reasons for grading cards, especially the classic vintage beauties. It is for grade and of course, authenticity. One thing I seem to have seen a jump in lurking in vintage card threads, is that more people are buying "A" grades now, as I did recently w a card that I wanted, Anyways, I digress.

My main ? for all you guys is that, I read "SGC has only graded five at a level higher than this " or PSA has three at this level in their Pop report. How do we REALLY know how many others are out there, from people who have NOT had their cards graded? So, why is the "number graded" such a high benchmark? And do any of you actually not care for graded cards, or they aren't "critical" for you to have the card you want?

I guess what I'm saying is, taking into account high pricing at times on graded cards that aren't particularly rare (say a 59 Ernie Banks), do you guys feel that grading services have been a help overall in the hobby? Thanks and Peaceful Easter to all.

Scott.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

Now, I understand the reasons for grading cards, especially the classic vintage beauties. It is for grade and of course, authenticity. One thing I seem to have seen a jump in lurking in vintage card threads, is that more people are buying "A" grades now, as I did recently w a card that I wanted, Anyways, I digress.

My main ? for all you guys is that, I read "SGC has only graded five at a level higher than this " or PSA has three at this level in their Pop report. How do we REALLY know how many others are out there, from people who have NOT had their cards graded? So, why is the "number graded" such a high benchmark? And do any of you actually not care for graded cards, or they aren't "critical" for you to have the card you want?

I guess what I'm saying is, taking into account high pricing at times on graded cards that aren't particularly rare (say a 59 Ernie Banks), do you guys feel that grading services have been a help overall in the hobby? Thanks and Peaceful Easter to all.

Scott.

Lots of questions in there. We have no way of knowing how many cards out there haven't been graded. In my mind, I generally at least double the graded population.

I think there is almost universal consensus that grading has done more good for the hobby then bad as it gives those with less background a way to level the field with card doctors & trimmers.

[teetwoohsix]

I think the good TPG's have helped the hobby for sure- for me, at least,they bring a comfort level to the card buying experience. I have to buy just about every card I collect over the internet, and even though the exact grade may not be precise in certain cases, if I am confident in the TPG my concerns with the card decrease.

I admire the veterans on this board who can spot fakes from all different types & sets, it is impressive and something that comes with many years of experience- but if you can't do that, and you rely solely on the internet (ebay, for example), you take a gamble with buying raw cards.I have learned that if you are going to buy raw, know the issue you are buying (as they say-"do your homework").

I like Matt's response about the pop reports, that is a great way to look at those. And who knows what's really out there that hasn't been graded....look at the recent "Beantown Find". It makes me think (and gives me hope) that there are many more untouched raw collections just waiting to be re-discovered !!!!

Clayton

[glchen]

The reason to get the higher grades is that as more and more cards are graded, your card will continue to stand up as one of the higher graded cards. For example, if there are 3 cards graded in the pop report of a particular card (for a prewar set that's known to be relatively rare), and a PSA 2 is the highest graded of those 3 cards, it's unlikely that card will be the highest graded card in the future or even one of the higher graded cards. There's a pretty good chance that PSA 3's, 4's and up will eventually get graded. However, if there are 3 cards graded in the pop report, and you have a PSA 6, that card has a much better chance of being one of the higher graded cards even in the future. There may be some 7's and higher that come along later, but still probably not as many. This is why for important cards that you collect, if you are trying to retain value, the common saying is to try to buy the highest graded card that you can afford. Again, if you are collecting for fun, you don't need to worry about this. However, if you are looking for your collection to also have some investment value, this is what some collectors keep in mind.

[ls7plus]

We'll never know just how many examples of a given card are out there, but you get a pretty good idea from experience: how often have you seen the card show up in auctions--especially major ones--over the years; if you google it, how many show up as currently being offered for sale, or having sold over the years; if you maintain a continuing e-bay search, how often does the card pop up over time; in the past, a consideration was how many times have you seen it at major shows; and, with regard to card grading, what is the pop report? What do dealers with a lot of long-term experience in the area of the type of card at issue think about how rare the card is?

Now, we all know that the pop report is only one indicator. But with what you believe to be a really tough card, how fast is the number that have been graded growing over time (especially after it has already reached significant price levels, such as $1,000+)? I can tell you that in a study of the coin market, the percentage of a given coin that reputable dealers/authors believe to exist is usually proportional to the value of that coin--as the item in question rises in value, a higher percentage of those that exist appear as having been graded in the pop reports. So grading has value from this perspective, AS ONE FACTOR TO BE CONSIDERED. It also gives a buyer who has not had the opportunity to inspect the card the assurance that it is most likely authentic, and that it has not been substantially under or overgraded (what you want to buy, of course, with truly scarce to rare items, when possible, is an example that is at the higher end of the stated grade--eye appeal counts!).

I still think that with cards, the set collectors know far more about how tough a given card is, or have a better idea of how many ungraded examples are still out there than anyone else. That's why this board is such a good resource for hall-of-fame or player collectors like me.

Regards,

Larry

[jason.1969]

More of a question than a reply...

I am newly back to collecting after 20 years off, so all the professionally graded stuff felt new to me. When I thought about maybe getting a card or two graded, I realized I could buy a decent card I wanted for the same money it wuold take to grade a card, so I opted for the former. Would be different if I had some really high end stuff and was hoping to sell it.

But here's my question...

Not just sometimes but OFTEN I see PSA graded cards on eBay where I'm thinking someone spent $10 to grade a card worth $2. For example, maybe a 1979 Topps J.R. Richard Record Breaker graded as PSA 4. What's going on there? Do they simply have an "in" with PSA to get their stuff graded dirt cheap or were they perhaps just hopeful of a much higher grade.

Thanks!

[glchen]

There are some dealers that send an extraordinarily high volume of cards to TPG"s like PSA for grading (4 Sharp Corners comes to mind), and they do receive a volume discount that most people don't receive. You probably need to send tens of thousands of cards for grading to get this kind of discount, so most of us shouldn't even consider it.

However, for the situation that you mentioned, where the card received such a low grade where it doesn't seem to be worth the cost of grading, it is usually because the submitter thought that he would receive a much higher grade than he did. Most novice submitters overgrade their cards. (You can see this from many raw card sellers on ebay every day.) Or even for expert submitters, they may have just missed something like surface crease, which wasn't visible except at an angle. There are other reasons also, such as some people submit nostalgic childhood cards for protection even if the condition is too poor to sell. Or if it's a tough card to find graded, some people just submit a poor condition copy anyway.

[yankees23]

Another thing to consider is that pop reports can also be on the high side (as far as graded cards). I continually have cards re-graded and cross-graded while removing the card from it's case when submitting. Thus increasing the pop reports.