Prewar Baseball

[thehoodedcoder]

I'm really not that big into things other than t206 but this is pretty cool and I am thinking about trying to pick it up.

Does anyone know if this is real or not, and what the value of it might be? It is claimed to be pre turn of the century.

Is there any services out there that validate the age range of an item like this?

[Brian Van Horn]

It looks real to me, but I am not expert on baseballs. Interesting hole.

[ullmandds]

beautiful hacky sack! just kidding...that IS a gorgeous ball. I don't know a ton about old balls but I'd guess 4-800 or so? If authentic I'd say definitely pre 20th c.

[Theo_450]

Looks like it was buried in a peat bog for 1000 years.

[Eric72]

I am not an expert; however, that item looks off to me. It seems a bit lopsided (supposedly from game use) without the wear one might expect to find on a 100+ year old baseball that was knocked around. In short, it doesn't look properly "worn" to me, considering other characteristics.

Just my uneducated opinion. I could be very wrong.

[Leon]

Since it's memorabilia you might try posting the question in that forum. It's the 3rd icon from the left.

[CMIZ5290]

Thank you Leon....

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

beautiful hacky sack! just kidding...that IS a gorgeous ball. I don't know a ton about old balls but I'd guess 4-800 or so? If authentic I'd say definitely pre 20th c.

And as usual, you would be wrong...

[ullmandds]

One of the kevinses is frisky tonight.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

One of the kevinses is frisky tonight.

Being from a "Sovereign state" where ice fishing has top billing, I would think you would be a little more forgiving...

[ullmandds]

So tell us about the ball!!!!! What was I wrong about?

[ruth-gehrig]

What is the size? Any more pics of it?

[thehoodedcoder]

The page says its some where between 60 and 70 percent of the size of a modern ball and not nearly as hard. It also says it is from the late 1800s but that is all it says.

I edited my original post to have the only other pictures.

I looked into moving the thread, but I don't think I can actually move it. I should have posted it over that, Leon.

Can you move it for me?

Thanks
Kevin

[khkco4bls]

It definitely looks real. On the high end 600 to 800. Looks to be in nice shape and typical size for 1870s. if u can get for reasonable price its a great relic balls were typically smaller then and were softer than normal baseballs.

[Runscott]

I wouldn't touch it - it could be that 'real' baseballs looked like this, but I've seen plenty of realistic fakes that also looked like this. Basically, if you are going to create a fake, you'll use the simplest design possible, and for a 19th century baseball, you are looking at it.

[thehoodedcoder]

well that sounds like decent advice but I am hoping for something more concrete than that.

is there anything that makes someone feel like it is fake, based on experience and something in the images?

is there any way to get it authenticated or confirmed it is genuine? if so what would be the best service to do that?

kevin

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

So tell us about the ball!!!!! What was I wrong about?

I am also curious about this.

[perezfan]

It looks like a typical one-piece construction lemon peel ball. There are no apparent tell-tale signs to indicate it being a reproduction or fake. Whether or not it was used for baseball could perhaps be debated, as it is a little bit on the smaller side.

But as for the materials and construction, everything looks perfect... IMO, it is not one of these bogus ebay examples that was made recently, to look old. The stitching is perfect for the era, and has obviously not been recently added. Also, if someone were to recreate this, they would not likely have added that mounting hole on the one panel.

As for authentication... Mears may be willing to write you up an LOA. I have seen them authenticate many other early pieces of baseball/football equipment simply as being "authentic". Try contacting them, if you need a professional Letter.

Hope this helps.

[Runscott]

Mark, isn't this also construction found on home-made early 20th century balls? It looks pretty simplistic. If not, how were simplistic, small, crudely-constructed home-made balls made after the 19th century ended?

[Runscott]

Mark - not questioning you, just looking for more detail. I have owned legitimate items of all types from the late 1800's, but never been able to date my balls as definitively as some do here. Also, the stuff I posted previously about 19th vs early 20th century balls, came from information I got here in this forum a couple of years ago - it seemed to be the consensus opinion at the time.

[perezfan]

I would post links if I had more time. Just check REA, Lelands, Legendary, Heritage, Hunts, etc. Their archives will show dozens of Lemon Peel examples that have sold over the past decade.

Most of the ebay examples purported to be old will have stitching that is newly applied, or is done in a more modern style. Or the coloring will be off, or the stitching will be too fine and/or will "sit atop" the leather with little signs of proper wear or settling in.

The stitching on this example looks correct in every way and is the thicker, more coarse style. Plus, you can see how it has settled in/embedded into the leather with the proper "puckering" at the seams and elongation of the holes.

Just my opinion after observing/buying/selling these items for 20+ years. I know that almost anything can be faked. Also know that skepticism tends to prevale in this forum. But in this case, I see none of the typical or tell-tale signs that would indicate this piece is bogus. If you contact any of the leading auctions to consign this piece (with the photos provided), I bet there isn't a one that would reject it.

[murphusa]

Originally Posted by Runscott

never been able to date my balls as definitively as some do here..

check you birth certificate

[Runscott]

Nevermind - this has gotten repetitive.

[1880nonsports]

experience helps. It's a leap of faith to different degrees as these were often crude and homemade examples. Type of leather, stitching, weight, diameter, and construction are all used in conjunction with an experienced eye. The ball looks OK from a scan - not pretty - but I see no glaring signs that's it's a marriage or a fake. As to whether it could be a handmade 20th century ball - the lemon construction suggests no but without it in hand it's measured speculation. As for value I'd suggest a lower estimate without more substantive information and study - it's not that "pretty". Have attached a pic of a few of my types. Still looking for a nice "H" style ball in larger size than the one I have.

no guarantees whether written or implied

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

experience helps. It's a leap of faith to different degrees as these were often crude and homemade examples. Type of leather, stitching, weight, diameter, and construction are all used in conjunction with an experienced eye. The ball looks OK from a scan - not pretty - but I see no glaring signs that's it's a marriage or a fake. As to whether it could be a handmade 20th century ball - the lemon construction suggests no but without it in hand it's measured speculation. As for value I'd suggest a lower estimate without more substantive information and study - it's not that "pretty". Have attached a pic of a few of my types. Still looking for a nice "H" style ball in larger size than the one I have.

no guarantees whether written or implied

Jeesus!! That's one gorgeous vintage ball display!
Congrats on your collection....

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

It's a leap of faith to different degrees

To me, collecting home-made baseballs has that same "leap of faith" element that you have with a lot of autographed items. I have a hard time taking that leap when there are other things to collect that don't require it, but I completely understand, and I know that Mark is your man when it comes to this sort of item. I also like the idea of asking Mears to look at it, although I wonder if a letter from a well-respected forum member might be just as good, or maybe even better.

I recently received a photograph from Legendary for which I later located a letter of opinion from David (Cycleback). I already knew it was real, but as a collector on this forum, such a letter would be more important to me than a PSA/DNA slab.