Potentially bad high end T206 cig pack- Broadleaf

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Posted By: leon

A good friend of mine who I consider an expert pack collector alerted me to this. He says he is sure it's a bad pack. Personally I am not positive but do think posting this auction is appropriate so anyone bidding on it can be careful. I have seen a few of these boxes and this one does look suspect...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270168024744&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D 270168024744%26fvi%3D1

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Posted By: Mark T

What about the rest of the sellers packs...does your friend have a guess on those?

The seller seems to only sell old packs of cigs.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

For the record - I think the pack is good. I will NOT be bidding as I own a correct T-206 version. However, I do want to state that I had tagged the auction and find no problems with it at all. It is a 15 count pack, not a 10 count pack so is slightly different than other versions and was not one that would ever have packaged cards.

Also, it is worth pointing out that one of the bidders is one of the most highly respected cigarette collectors out there and certainly has a collection to marvel at.

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Posted By: leon

I just called my friend again. He says he has never seen a pack of this age not have writing on it per govt. regulations. He now says (85%) he doesn't think it's good. The other packs do seem to be real. My friend (yes, I actually have one) said he emailed the seller about this pack. The seller said it's from an attic find and there is no reason for someone to fake this pack. All of this being said I won't be bidding on it. If anyone is bidding just be aware that my friend, nor I, have ever seen a period pack that lacks any kind of writing on it like this one does. It could be good...and if it is it will be about an $800-$1000 pack. I am still looking for a real one myself.....I have seen at least 2 other Broadleaf packs and they did look generally like this but had the aforementioned writing.....Period packs look more liket these.....

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Leon,

I'm curious - did your friend get scans of the other side of the pack? The Broadleaf pack I have has writing on just one of the side panels (the pack is pictured on T-206.org if anyone wants to view the front scans). Nothing on the front or back besides the graphics. The slide also says "Broadleaf" on the top. I know you've seen my Broadleaf before, in scans and I think in person and it is def. 100% authentic.

The thing that get's me is where would someone get the graphics to replicate the pack? Like you stated - they are so rare - who has one to dupe? Besides the one I own, I, too, have only see one other for a grand total of 2. Also, the early ATC brands that were duped in the 1970's by PM were also soft packs - not slides, plus I never heard of Broadleaf being duped (although Red Sun and Obak were).

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Posted By: leon

Like I say my friend, whom you probably know, by the initials of SH, says he thinks there is an 85% chance it's not good. It just doesn't look right to him. That still leaves a 15% chance of it being good in his mind. He asked for additional scans but the seller didn't send them. I hope someone wins it, it's real, and gets a good deal. I also felt I needed to say something as a very experienced pack collector doesn't think it's good....regards

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Posted By: Sean

thanks leon for those pictures
i always wanted to see alot of tobacco product pictures

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

I agree with Jon. It doesn't look right to me. The fact that it has a 15 count tax stamp also confirms it's not period. Here's a scan of Jon's. Note how Jon's has black lines around Broadleaf and Cigarettes. The circle also doesn't have a black line around it. Matter of fact none of the black lines on Jon's are on this box. The printing looks modern. I say it's a bad reproduction. He also states it's a 1910 box, when the tax stamp says 1909 with no overprinting.

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Posted By: scott hassel

I spoke to Henry M this afternoon and he is of the same opinion
as I . Walks like a duck but doesn't quack like a duck. I asked the seller for scans of the other sides and received none. Good luck! Jon I've got to go against your feelings on this one.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Scott - no problem! See the pack sold for $300 and change which is cheap for this pack. I see Richard posted mine and I will try and snap some digital photos of it later to show what mine looks like. I still think it looks ok but it's just an opinion. I wouldn't have been bidding because #1.) I have one and #2.) It's a 15 cig pack. If it had stayed cheap and unseen, I would have bid on it as a companion piece. Regardless, I've never seen a repro and still wouldn't know where the graphics came from. Any ideas who won it?

Edited to add pack pictures:

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Posted By: scott hassel

Jon take a look at the white section that runs just to the left of the tax stamp. Looks like there was a larger stamp there at some point. The seller did tell me it was real when I asked. I've seen another guy from my home state that sells packs on a regular baisis on ebay that have their tax stamps replaced to look/date period but they aren't. I've seen 3 of these in total and they just don't look the same. As I said I ran it by the master / my pack instructer and he felt the same as I. Consider together we've viewed 1000's of packs over the years. If either of us felt it was right it would reside either in Florida or NJ by next week. I've never owned one though Florida did at some point.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

I trust Henry's opinion as well as yours and Leon's. I also contacted Jim Shaw just to get his as well. Regardless, it was still the first time I can remember seeing a Broadleaf anything on eBay. I do think that the white section could just be an off centered tax stamp. My Old Mill has an off-centered stamp.