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  #1  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:22 AM
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Default Deserving of a PSA 10?

What do you think?
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  #2  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:34 AM
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When you compare 10's to 9's, they look interchangeable.
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:38 AM
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What's going on in the upper left corner?
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  #4  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:43 AM
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What's going on in the upper left corner?
Looks like a fragment of cardboard that was left during the cutting process - didn't cut through all the way.

I have no problem with it as a PSA 10.
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  #5  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:48 AM
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I'm not a T206 expert, but I might have expected better top to bottom centering for a 10.
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  #6  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:51 AM
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I'm not a T206 expert, but I might have expected better top to bottom centering for a 10.
The 'ol 70/30 PSA 10.

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  #7  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:51 AM
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How can any card that is 115+ years old look like that ? Remember it was packaged in a tobacco pack . This card has never been dropped etc. ?? Just putting it in and out of a CardSaver without corner nicks is hard to do . Wow !
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:52 AM
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"4.5" if I'd submitted it. Or "A".
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  #9  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:54 AM
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If you enlarge the upper right corner, it looks angled or something.
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  #10  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:59 AM
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Should not be higher than an 8 with that top to bottom centering.

Ridiculous that this got slabbed a 10
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  #11  
Old 09-05-2018, 12:06 PM
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OUTRAGEOUS!!! but at least the board is finally talking about a heritage auction.
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2018, 01:42 PM
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I cannot afford it. I do not know T206s well either so with those disclosures my worthless opinion is that it is not a 10. I see what appears to be a tobacco stain too. My hunch is that if taken out of the holder it would not come back as a 10 the next time. If it were my card however I would not see any of the flaws we have pointed out.

In a perfect world I think I would prefer to buy a card that I feel would grade the same way if submitted again. I know not all collectors, especially those at the top of the food chain, care about that.
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  #13  
Old 09-05-2018, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxb View Post
I'm not a T206 expert, but I might have expected better top to bottom centering for a 10.
If the centering begins below the letters at the bottom of the card (which I believe it does?) then I believe it is in tolerance of receiving a 10?
https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards#detail

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Originally Posted by insidethewrapper View Post
How can any card that is 115+ years old look like that ? Remember it was packaged in a tobacco pack . This card has never been dropped etc. ?? Just putting it in and out of a CardSaver without corner nicks is hard to do . Wow !
I have always wondered that too. How could a card that old or older stay so sharp and clean after all these years?

I am not suggesting it isn't possible, I would just like to know how cards like these were saved/preserved when I highly doubt any type of card savers/sheets were available way back then.

Can I assume most were placed between pages of thick books? I'd honestly like to know what collectors did way back then.

Last edited by irv; 09-05-2018 at 02:09 PM.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2018, 02:43 PM
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IMO, there is no way this should be a 10, especially with the back being so far off-center and stained.



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Old 09-05-2018, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
If the centering begins below the letters at the bottom of the card (which I believe it does?) then I believe it is in tolerance of receiving a 10?
https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards#detail



I have always wondered that too. How could a card that old or older stay so sharp and clean after all these years?

I am not suggesting it isn't possible, I would just like to know how cards like these were saved/preserved when I highly doubt any type of card savers/sheets were available way back then.

Can I assume most were placed between pages of thick books? I'd honestly like to know what collectors did way back then.
Most of the old time collections were stored in cigar boxes. By stacking them horizontally they were protected from further wear, assuming nobody took them out to look at them. The card would have to have been placed in the cigar box in Mint condition of course, which is difficult enough, then preserved that way for a century.

Is it reasonable to question then how so many T206's remain to this day in pristine or near pristine condition? Yes, that's a fair question. There have been some finds over the years of pristine cards, so some of the 8's, 9's and 10's are perfectly original. But not all.
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  #16  
Old 09-05-2018, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RedsFan1941 View Post
OUTRAGEOUS!!! but at least the board is finally talking about a heritage auction.
We need to work in parking costs and eBay bucks to steer this thread back to where it belongs.

Regardless, there are worse 10s in the auction than even this one. Remmeber, a lot of these cards come from the Harris collection.
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  #17  
Old 09-05-2018, 03:23 PM
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We need to work in parking costs and eBay bucks to steer this thread back to where it belongs.

Regardless, there are worse 10s in the auction than even this one. Remmeber, a lot of these cards come from the Harris collection.
Is that right? So a number of these were cracked and re-submitted?
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2018, 03:35 PM
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I think the flips just changed to remove the Harris pedigree.
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  #19  
Old 09-05-2018, 03:36 PM
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I think the flips just changed to remove the Harris pedigree.
For good reason.
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  #20  
Old 09-05-2018, 04:26 PM
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I think the flips just changed to remove the Harris pedigree.
I wonder if I could do that as well. http://www.net54baseball.com/forum/i...s/confused.gif


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  #21  
Old 09-05-2018, 04:32 PM
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But it "presents well!"
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  #22  
Old 09-05-2018, 04:41 PM
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But it "presents well!"
Perhaps when it eventually gets sold it will get a High End certification.
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  #23  
Old 09-05-2018, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
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For good reason.
I'm far too lazy and disinterested to look, does the write up mention the pedigree?
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  #24  
Old 09-05-2018, 05:36 PM
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I'm far too lazy and disinterested to look, does the write up mention the pedigree?
LOL

Wait. You're serious?
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  #25  
Old 09-05-2018, 05:45 PM
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I think it's an 11. Someone purple sticker that slab!!!
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  #26  
Old 09-05-2018, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insidethewrapper View Post
How can any card that is 115+ years old look like that ? Remember it was packaged in a tobacco pack . This card has never been dropped etc. ?? Just putting it in and out of a CardSaver without corner nicks is hard to do . Wow !
I posted about this subject in a previous thread on the 9-10's in this auction:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=257327

Starting at post #13 through #25 might lend some insight. There was a large find of uncirculated T206's at the end of the 1980's. From the backs that were in the group it was likely a box of cards meant to be put into packs at factory 25 that were taken home. No Sweet Caporal, Just Piedmont 150-350, Sovereign 150-350 and Old Mill Southern League. You will notice the number of Sovereign 150 backs in this collection at Heritage. This was a pretty well documented find at the time, I covered about all I can remember in the other thread.
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  #27  
Old 09-05-2018, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
We need to work in parking costs and eBay bucks to steer this thread back to where it belongs.

Regardless, there are worse 10s in the auction than even this one. Remmeber, a lot of these cards come from the Harris collection.
As painful as it is to say, I agree with Jeff on this. This card should be no higher than an 8 IMO, the upper left corner regardless of the cut, simply keeps this card way below a grade of 10, not even close... Also, there are Harris cards out there that look like Stevie Wonder trimmed them....

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  #28  
Old 09-05-2018, 06:22 PM
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IMO, there is no way this should be a 10, especially with the back being so far off-center and stained.



DJ
Do they not consider the centering on the back when making their assessment? I canít believe that they would not. We can all agree that the card doesnít deserve a 10, but some guy wonít care and will drop absurd money on the flip anyway. Itís madness.
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  #29  
Old 09-05-2018, 06:25 PM
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Do they not consider the centering on the back when making their assessment? I canít believe that they would not. We can all agree that the card doesnít deserve a 10, but some guy wonít care and will drop absurd money on the flip anyway. Itís madness.
Even if this card was spot on, perfect centering on the back, 8 at best should be the grade.,...
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  #30  
Old 09-05-2018, 06:27 PM
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LOL

Wait. You're serious?
Sometimes, but not now..................
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  #31  
Old 09-05-2018, 06:29 PM
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Not deserving of a PSA, but since the question was asked:
1) Feathering on top right is not usually discounted since it's a factory cut.
2) Card was graded many (20?) years ago.
3) Top/bottom centering is not nearly 70/30. There's an optical illusion going on because of the top prong.
4) Back centering is pretty awful. PSA 10s only have to be 75/25 on back, but this definitely isn't.
5) Not sure when their current rules on grading were defined. It's possible those came in after this one was graded.

Someone who doesn't care about the grade (but likes the card) could make a lot of their investment back by sending it to PSA and having them regrade it, then take the cashout to the current value.
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  #32  
Old 09-05-2018, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Not deserving of a PSA, but since the question was asked:
1) Feathering on top right is not usually discounted since it's a factory cut.
2) Card was graded many (20?) years ago.
3) Top/bottom centering is not nearly 70/30. There's an optical illusion going on because of the top prong.
4) Back centering is pretty awful. PSA 10s only have to be 75/25 on back, but this definitely isn't.
5) Not sure when their current rules on grading were defined. It's possible those came in after this one was graded.

Someone who doesn't care about the grade (but likes the card) could make a lot of their investment back by sending it to PSA and having them regrade it, then take the cashout to the current value.
Good luck getting a check back from PSA on this one. I'd be willing to wager against that happening.
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  #33  
Old 09-05-2018, 09:35 PM
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Good luck getting a check back from PSA on this one. I'd be willing to wager against that happening.
Yeah no way are they writing checks because cards were graded under looser standards back in the day.
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  #34  
Old 09-06-2018, 07:24 AM
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Good luck getting a check back from PSA on this one. I'd be willing to wager against that happening.
More likely that PSA will tell you that someone cracked a holder and slipped the flip and this 8 (OC) card in.
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  #35  
Old 09-06-2018, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
Most of the old time collections were stored in cigar boxes. By stacking them horizontally they were protected from further wear, assuming nobody took them out to look at them. The card would have to have been placed in the cigar box in Mint condition of course, which is difficult enough, then preserved that way for a century.

Is it reasonable to question then how so many T206's remain to this day in pristine or near pristine condition? Yes, that's a fair question. There have been some finds over the years of pristine cards, so some of the 8's, 9's and 10's are perfectly original. But not all.
Thanks Barry. I also read that thread about the Southern Find, that is something I never considered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Not deserving of a PSA, but since the question was asked:
1) Feathering on top right is not usually discounted since it's a factory cut.
2) Card was graded many (20?) years ago.
3) Top/bottom centering is not nearly 70/30. There's an optical illusion going on because of the top prong.
4) Back centering is pretty awful. PSA 10s only have to be 75/25 on back, but this definitely isn't.
5) Not sure when their current rules on grading were defined. It's possible those came in after this one was graded.

Someone who doesn't care about the grade (but likes the card) could make a lot of their investment back by sending it to PSA and having them regrade it, then take the cashout to the current value.
Can one not request the grade remain the same when submitting for a reholder/new flip or would the TPG's say the cards no longer meet the grade we gave them X number of years ago and need to be regraded?
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  #36  
Old 09-06-2018, 09:31 AM
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Default psa 10 ?

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Originally Posted by tiger8mush View Post
"4.5" if I'd submitted it. Or "A".
+1

I saw these so called 10s. No way. The Germany Shaffer is 60/40 side to side.

Someone paid for this. I have lots of perfectly good cards off center. Why don't they rate a 10 ?
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  #37  
Old 09-06-2018, 04:18 PM
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No qualifiers ??????
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  #38  
Old 09-06-2018, 04:55 PM
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Can one not request the grade remain the same when submitting for a reholder/new flip or would the TPG's say the cards no longer meet the grade we gave them X number of years ago and need to be regraded?
Sure, you can ask for a reholder and the card should not be evaluated unless there is tampering or the grade is totally off so as to trigger a review.
I am talking about the Review process, where you pay PSA to review the card in the holder, with no minimum grade. If PSA now deems this card to be a PSA 7 instead of a 10, their guarantee states that they will reimburse the submitter the difference between what they paid and what a 7 sells for.
I was just spitballing anyways, because the person buying this will definitely overpay for the 10 on the flip for a set registry, and it will never be reviewed.

And Copa, if you submitted your cards 20 years ago, they may have been graded more leniently. But since you don't have a time machine, you get graded by today's current standards, just like the rest of us.
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  #39  
Old 09-07-2018, 07:50 AM
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To me 9s and 10s always look the same. They probably look the same to graders too LOL..... Flip a coin.
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  #40  
Old 09-07-2018, 08:02 AM
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To me 9s and 10s always look the same. They probably look the same to graders too LOL..... Flip a coin.
Or check who submitted them. LOL.
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  #41  
Old 09-07-2018, 02:50 PM
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I'm not a T206 expert, but I might have expected better top to bottom centering for a 10.
YUP! Makes you wonder who submitted it.
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Old 09-07-2018, 03:22 PM
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The McGraw pointing is truly an extraordinary card, and when you look at it you understand why it was graded a 10. But a few of the other 10's don't match up well and make you wonder just what is going on. Many of them should only grade 9 at best. I don't know anyone who really understands how grading works at this exalted level.
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  #43  
Old 09-07-2018, 08:48 PM
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vintagerookies51 vintagerookies51 is offline
Cole Hibbard
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Ever since I started collecting about 10 years ago, I've always thought there was one huge flaw in the grading system. The second lowest grade is GOOD- that makes absolutely zero since. You got practically the upper half of the system with the word mint in it. Everything 7-10 looks the same to me and that's why I just stick with 3s and under lol

With that said, there's no way this card should grade a 10, especially after looking at the back
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Last edited by vintagerookies51; 09-07-2018 at 08:49 PM.
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  #44  
Old 09-12-2018, 05:21 AM
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Robert Williams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger8mush View Post
"4.5" if I'd submitted it. Or "A".
Same here.
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  #45  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:57 PM
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Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
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I think some of the cards with low cert numbers are suspect
when it comes to trimming and minimum size requirements.

McGraw PSA.jpg

McGraw PSA - Copy.jpg
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  #46  
Old 09-17-2018, 08:38 AM
NotVader NotVader is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
What do you think?
not a 10 ?

Oh Wait Ö its a 10 as per PSA!

Drink the Kool-Aid People !!

From Sunny Florida

CV
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