The Say Hey Kid

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Has there ever been a better all-around center fielder. My first baseball idol growing up.

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Posted By: peter chao

Gorgeous '53 Topps Mays. I use to play a shallow center-field like Mays, it's fun that way, you feel more involved in the whole game. Historically, Mays was probably the best ever in center field.

However, if Mantle didn't have so many leg problems throughout his career he probably would have been better. Besides he was a switch-hitter which gave him a significant advantage at bat.

Mays had a better arm and was a better base stealer.

Peter C.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Here's another PSA 8 beauty.

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Posted By: Paul S

Beautiful cards, Jim. Thanks!
I was wondering when somebody would start a Mays thread. Here's a few:

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Posted By: Paul S

Peter, what's your criteria for a center fielder? Just the ability to run after a ball and catch it? Because in your comparison to Mantle you say that Mick probably would have been a better center fielder if not for his leg problems, but then you mention that Mays had a better arm. Wouldn't that -- his arm -- be part of the package? It's a shame about Mantle catching his foot in the drainpipe at the Stadium, but we could play "qualifiers" forever, and with anybody. Also a shame Mantle didn't take care of his health. To me that's all part of the game. Either a guy was or he wasn't. Now, Mantle was my man growing up, and I've seen them both play, but I'd have a hard time seeing how he could be any better than Mays.

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Posted By: Phil Garry

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Posted By: Clint

I'll take Tris Speaker.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

When I was a kid I collected every Mays card from Topps and Bowman. When I met him as teenager I was so put off by his churlishness that I sold every damned card. He sure was on some nice cards though and I reacquired a few later on.

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Posted By: Bob

Nice cards guys!!







(edited to remove '52 Bowman cause we already had one...oops)

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Posted By: peter chao

Paul S.,

There aren't that many ballplayers that had more natural ability than Mays. But Mantle probably was one of them. Before his leg injuries started piling up on him, batting left-handed he was the fastest AL player going from home to first.

He could also hit 500 foot home runs from each side of the plate.

I'm a Giants fan and Mays was one of my favorites, but if I were to pick an all-time greats batting line-up I would have Mantle batting lead-off and Mays would be a late inning defensive replacement. Just my opinion.

It's true that one time Mays was pretty surly at card shows but it seems like he's mellowed in the last 10 years. I guess having a statute of himself in front of AT and T Park helped make him more mellow.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Paul S

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I saw them all play and they were great. I was very fortunate to be growing up in the 1950's.

And, to compare these three guys in an attempt to place one greater than the other is a futile exercise.

However, Mickey did achieve something that cannot be said for Willie and the Duke....and, that is Mantle (a 19-year old kid) stepped into
a great New York legend's "footsteps"....Joe DiMaggio....and, Mickey not only succeeded; but, became one of the most popular HOFers.
How many recall who Mays or Snider replaced ?

This achievement might not strike some of you as noteworthy; but, in the post-WWII era, only one other ballplayer has accomplished this feat....
while many others have been unable to overcome such a stigma.

Can you name this other HOFer ?

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Posted By: Dave Williams

Yaz replacing Ted Williams.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I can't think of anyone else who has accomplished this task since WWII.....people really don't realize how awesome this was by Mantle and Yaz.

I remember how Mickey was booed those first few years in the early '50s at Yankee Stadium....particularly when he struck out.

TED Z

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Posted By: Paul S

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Posted By: Al

Bob---what year was it that Mays got traded to the Mets anyway ?

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Posted By: Bob

Al,
You're fixating. Move on.
Bob

P.S. I think it was around 1976.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Willie played for the Mets in the second half of 1972 and 1973.

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Posted By: peter chao

Ted, Guys,

It took Yaz a long time before he was accepted by the Red Sox fans.

Also Mantle was an important reason why Roger Maris was able to break Ruth's single season home run record. By batting after Roger in the Yankees lineup he insured that Roger would see good pitchs to hit. As a consequence Roger was walked a lot fewer times than either McGwire or Bonds in their record breaking years.

Peter C.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Love those Candy Lid proofs Bob!

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Posted By: David Williams

From 1939 to about 1985 the Red Sox had either Williams, Yaz, or Jim Rice in Left Field.

That's a pretty good 45 year run.

2 Hall of Famers and a guy who may get in someday.

Is that the best ever?

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Posted By: Walter

They might not be considered cards, but I have always liked the Dexter Press PC's. Willie looks like he is about to jump out of the picture.



Always looking for T59 Flag cards and T113 Types of Nations.
http://www.t59flags.com

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Posted By: Paul S

But Peter, re Yaz's acceptance, didn't Terrible Ted have a love/hate relationship with the BSox fans too? That would fit right in!
And re David's comments about Rice -- he was really quite
the surly guy. Must be something about the Fenway outfield air.
BTW -- I remember Mantle being admired but not coddled by NY fans in the 50's the way he was much more in the 60's. He wasn't totally lionized until
after he retired.
Meanwhile, here's more Mays to keep this on topic:




*edited for cards and assorted text.

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Posted By: Paul S

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Posted By: peter chao

Paul S.,

Nice '64 Giants Gunner's card, Mays and Cepeda were quite a twosome. If the Giants had managed to keep both McCovey and Cepeda, the Giants might have been able to capture a World Series flag...instead we are still waiting here in San Francisco.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Paul S

Thanks Peter -- Maybe when they ditch Bonds's salary they can pick up some pitching and fill a few holes.

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Posted By: Paul S

I was going to post this in the Memorabilia forum but I didn't know if it was dated enough...(ahem). Anyway, the picture supplies enough info -- size-wise it's about 18" long.

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Posted By: dennis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zXvKwnCx6w

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Posted By: Larry P.

From the old scrapbook:

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Posted By: peter chao

Larry,

Great newspaper clipping, the only drawback is Mays is in a New York uniform. I still can't believe the Giants traded him.

Peter C.

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Posted By: dstudeba

Awesome clipping! I never realized they were tied at one time.

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Posted By: Paul S

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Posted By: peter chao

Whose a lock? Are you saying Willie was the best CF ever by a longshot?

I don't think so. If Willie participated in more WS games it would be easier to gauge. However, you need to give Mantle an edge for being a better WS hitter.

Willie obviously better in All-Star games.

Mantle won a triple-crown and Mays never did.

Mantle has an edge because he was a switch-hitter.

Mays had a better throwing arm.

It's pretty close and not a lock for Mays. I would give the edge to Mantle because he was a World Series star and because he's a switch-hitter.

Peter C.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Peter,

Better in all-star games? Gosh, who was better in spring training?

And where exactly would you have played Cepeda in the field presuming McCovey is your first baseman?

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Posted By: Paul S

Peter,
I didn't say anybody was a lock. Must be another thread or someone else. Also, I don't know about how to go about comparing "greatest of all time", so I'm not sure how that got read into what I wrote -- or didn't write. Still, I'd have to say that the greatest ever is...name your own here.

Hey BTW, where are posts of your cards? I'd thought you be all over this thread. This is your team, man!

Meanwhile, to bring this back to topic:


*edit to say: Just realized that the HR Leader card has 5-out-of-5 HOFers, four of them with more than 500 lifetime HRs, and 2,872 lifetime home runs. Yow!

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Posted By: peter chao

Paul S.

In one of the above posts, you say in the message title, "He's a lock, like it or not." I didn't know who you were referring to. My darn scanner broke down again.



Jim C.,

While Cepeda and McCovey were on the Giants they both played part time in the outfield.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Paul S

Peter, that was Roberto Alomar in the Future Hall of Famer thread.

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Posted By: peter chao

Well you accidentally repeated the statement on this thread.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Larry P.

And from my HOF wall:

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Posted By: Paul S

Peter, Oh in the message title. I had copied and pasted it in the other thread - I guess it was still cached when I tried to do the same with "The Say Hey Kid" message title, My mistake (but I'm RIGHT! )

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Posted By: Paul S

Interestingly, in this '68 Topps Game Card series: Mantle is a "Single" and Pete Rose is a "Ground Out"!

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Posted By: dennis

just for the sake of argument i would say mantle was better because his secondary average was so much greater when both were in their prime. there really is no case here mantle was flat out greater to his team. also,mantles yankees were the best team of that era. and, there were some great teams in that era.none greater than the yankees. mays had some great players on the teams he played on so no one can say the giants did not have the talant the yankees did. but they did not win like the mantle led yankees. fact is aside from babe ruth and barry bonds no one in the history of baseball was as dangerous as mantle in his prime. (1953-63) he was pitched around in most game situations.

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Posted By: peter chao

Bill James thinks that Willie is the best centerfielder of all time. He made some good arguments, but it comes down to Willie being more durable and a better defensive centerfielder.

Normally, I agree with Mr. James, but to me the prime player years are more important and Mantle had better prime years.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Paul S

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Posted By: Paul S

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Posted By: peter chao

Paul S.,

You are indeed a real Mays fan. So am I, it is just that I could never figure out why his cap sometimes flew off when he chased a fly ball. It had to be theatrics, he purposely got a loose fitting cap so that it flew off when he reached top speed.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Paul S

Peter,

What I always heard was that Willie purposely removed the forehead sweatband from inside his cap, for dramatic reasons as he ran after a ball. Can't vouch for it personally.

Also, I'm a Mantle fan at heart, but I'd like to see our new post-war forum have some definitive threads, with Mays an obvious choice as one of them. And, I love seeing images, lots and lots of them, and am hoping for more from others here. I have as much of Mays's issues as I do most other HOFers and/or stars from that era, and hopefully we can get around to Clemente, Kaline, Snider, et al. But I'm already past the point of running low on my own supply of anything interesting that's Willie, other than regular Bowman and Topps types...Like this one here:



A beaut, ain't it?

*edited because I always change my mind after the fact.

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Posted By: Bob

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Posted By: Bob

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Posted By: Paul S

Beautiful stuff, Bob. His test disc image against that deep yellow background is especially striking. Thanks!