Lou Gehrig Auto 1928 $2 Bill

[Donscards]

I have a 1928 Two Dollar Bill signed by Lou Gehrig----it looks good to me and I know Gehrig is a tough one and most fail JSA or PSA---over the years, I have submitted 3 Gehrigs and all were good---I believe 80 Plus % usually fail authentication----anyway I know this is a great place to get opinions---I will be taking it to a show next weekend and have JSA look at it. I am hoping for the best. The signature looks to be black ink. thanks in advance and I would like to hear what you think. Don

[daves_resale_shop]

no good in my opinion...

lot of hesitation in the signature, and the ink appears to "bleed" into the paper which often happens when ink is applied to older paper...

[shelly]

I agree. To much bleeding on a bill that whould have been new when autographed.

[Runscott]

Was it common back then for guys like Gehrig to sign money?

[Donscards]

Wow I am getting bad news---sure was hoping for the best----this auto is from a friend and I said I would buy it if good $2200. plus jsa fee---so not looking good I guess Thanks Shelly and Dave------Don

[1880nonsports]

in a two dollar bill is hard to ignore.......

[David Atkatz]

Simply awful.

[khkco4bls]

Wouldn't pay the 2 dollar bill. Gehrig should flow smoothly

[GrayGhost]

Sadly, very labored and the ink as has been mentioned is an issue too.

[jcmtiger]

No!!!!

Joe

[WillowGrove]

Hey autoqraph guys, could someone explain where you see the hesitations? Im considering getting into vintage autos and id love to use this one example for some quick learning. I think I can see what you mean on the L but unsure.

Thanks for any help.

Peter

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by WillowGrove

Hey autoqraph guys, could someone explain where you see the hesitations? Im considering getting into vintage autos and id love to use this one example for some quick learning. I think I can see what you mean on the L but unsure.

Thanks for any help.

Peter

Look at the G for a while, see the stops and starts? See how stiffly it is written?
This is one horrid forgery.
It is not from the Florida gangsters but probably from the Northeast.

[ctownboy]

I looked on the web and 1928 D two dollar bills were produced between January, 1934 and July, 1944. If you can find or narrow down when your bill was produced you might have a better idea if this Gehrig sig is legit. I mean, if the bill was made after June, 1941 then you would KNOW that Gehrig would have a hard time signing anything since he was DEAD.

Why I suggest to do this is because a few years ago, someone came on these boards with a question about a bill that was supposedly signed by Babe Ruth. Another member read the story and then researched and found out the bill was printed AFTER Ruth had died so him signing it was impossible.

David

[1880nonsports]

but it seems there's something quite interesting going on in the mind of a forger who uses something like a 2 dollar bill to represent their work. It's so "in your face". Most everyone has heard the "phoney as a two dollar bill" expression. I guess it's ego and gall mixed with anger and self-loathing. As has been expressed - the signature is terrible..........

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

but it seems there's something quite interesting going on in the mind of a forger who uses something like a 2 dollar bill to represent their work. It's so "in your face". Most everyone has heard the "phoney as a two dollar bill" expression. I guess it's ego and gall mixed with anger and self-loathing. As has been expressed - the signature is terrible..........

Uhmmmm..... The expression is "As phony as a three dollar bill." This may explain some of the puzzled looks that you have received over the years.

[1880nonsports]

could pen an autograph that looks like the one in question whether they're in Queens or a small town in Iowa. Isn't the problem how to get the item into the market? A poor fake could be produced by anyone and show up anywhere where the naive linger like eBay, craig's list, yard sales, home town auctions and the like. The serious buyer in today's info rich cyberworld SHOULD be more difficult to fool and their radar would be more active in these lesser venues. That then requires a more adept hand to produce it but also a conduit or buffer to give it more legitimacy. The forger needs to somehow distance himself from his work. Whether that happens by complicity or ingnorance - it all comes down to knowing what you're buying and whom you trust.
BTW - not everyone here in Florida is a forger or crook - it's mostly just the prisoners and politicians.

[1880nonsports]

the looks I've always attributed to the fact my mother was allowed to drink in her second trimester. Growing up in NY I've mostly heard it the way I said it - although phoney as a three dollar bill is of course logically more correct as there never were 3$ bills. I was born in the 1950's and like now there were few 2$ bills in circulation - and I believe that's how the phrase morhed or became an accepted usage. Question everything - accept nothing.

[JimStinson]

Maybe a coincidence but was the late Ron D. favorite color ink.

Also has been some "suspect" signed currency hitting the market in the last couple years usually signed in pencil. Always Hall of Famers and never common players , all factors combined I'd suggest unless you can get it for $2.00 (Its worth at least that much) you've overpaid , And even if someone says its authentic it does not make it so. Use the dough to have a nice dinner and a night out.

A REMINDER the two most often forged signatures in the hobby Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig.
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Vintage autographs for sale daily on my web site
stinsonsports.com

[David Atkatz]

I grew up in NYC in the 50s-60s too. The phrase is, was, and always has been "as phoney as a three-dollar bill."

[1880nonsports]

we used to buy bologna by the slice instead of the pound. I have heard it said both ways - of course as I said before the 3$ bill would be correct logically. I mistakenly figured that others had heard it that way - so I found the use of the 2$ ironic. Now I guess it's just tragic without the irony and I'll go back into my hole..... :-)

[1880nonsports]

1) Although both the colony of Massachusetts [1] and the Thirteen Colonies[2] printed $3 bills, the United States never issued one; however, a $3.00 gold coin was issued by the U.S. from 1854 to 1889.

Legitimate three-dollar bills were also produced by various banks in the early days of the United States and by the Confederacy.[3] Before the creation of the Federal Reserve System, individual banks offered their own currencies.[4]

2) I found at least one other person (out of a pool exceeding 313 million here in the US) who has heard it that way :-)

3) I realize now I need help..........

edited to add appologies to the op for derailing the thread. It's a slow day here.

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Look at the G for a while, see the stops and starts? See how stiffly it is written?
This is one horrid forgery.
It is not from the Florida gangsters but probably from the Northeast.

Thanks Richard. I do see what you mean - I had to compare the G to real Gehrig auto's to do it - but I see how it was labored and deliberate. A real G would have a much rounder (natural) circle to it-

so interesting this vintage autograph collecting. you really gotta know what you're looking for.

thanks again

peter

[ctownboy]

Willowgrove,

Try this; take a pen and paper and write your name the way you normally do. See how smooth and even that was and how it looks?

Now, take the pen and use your opposite hand to write your name. Even though you are writing your own name, there is shaking and hesitation because what you are doing/writing is not normal.

Most crooks/thieves are simpletons and think they can just write/copy/trace something and get away with it. That is why the REAL crooks practice, practice and practice some more before they attempt to fake something and get away with it. They want their movements to be normal and to flow evenly and not have to think about what they are doing.

At least that is how I have had stuff like this explained to me,

David

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Willowgrove,

Try this; take a pen and paper and write your name the way you normally do. See how smooth and even that was and how it looks?

Now, take the pen and use your opposite hand to write your name. Even though you are writing your own name, there is shaking and hesitation because what you are doing/writing is not normal.


At least that is how I have had stuff like this explained to me,

David

I see what you mean David - thanks for that exercise. -peter

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by WillowGrove

Hey autoqraph guys, could someone explain where you see the hesitations? Im considering getting into vintage autos and id love to use this one example for some quick learning. I think I can see what you mean on the L but unsure.

Thanks for any help.

Peter

If you can't see the hesitations on this one, do yourself a favor and "get out" of Vintage autos...consider having your head examined and "get out" as fast as you are for the quick learning "getting into" them.

wholey snot rag, that's just horrible.

I thought the saying was "queer as a $3 bill"?

[MooseDog]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

If you can't see the hesitations on this one, do yourself a favor and "get out" of Vintage autos...consider having your head examined and "get out" as fast as you are for the quick learning "getting into" them.

wholey snot rag, that's just horrible.

I agree that is a horrible forgery but I think you're being a wee bit harsh on Peter there, Chuck...when I was a young whippersnapper, I was interested in vintage autographs and came across a binder of them at one of Dick Dobbin's shows at his high school. One of the regulars there, one George C. basically told me to bug off, I was too young to appreciate them and he wouldn't even give me a price.

Thankfully, it was guys like Dobbins, Will Davis, Nick Peters, and Steve Brunner who patiently answered all my questions, showed me great stuff, and planted the seeds of collecting passion that they had.

I've still managed to make a LOT of mistakes along the way in regards to autographs but it's a long learning process and you gotta start somewhere. If only there were a forum like this way back when, the closest thing we had was Jeff Morey's autograph newsletter.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by MooseDog

I agree that is a horrible forgery but I think you're being a wee bit harsh on Peter there, Chuck...when I was a young whippersnapper, I was interested in vintage autographs and came across a binder of them at one of Dick Dobbin's shows at his high school. One of the regulars there, one George C. basically told me to bug off, I was too young to appreciate them and he wouldn't even give me a price.

Thankfully, it was guys like Dobbins, Will Davis, Nick Peters, and Steve Brunner who patiently answered all my questions, showed me great stuff, and planted the seeds of collecting passion that they had.

I've still managed to make a LOT of mistakes along the way in regards to autographs but it's a long learning process and you gotta start somewhere. If only there were a forum like this way back when, the closest thing we had was Jeff Morey's autograph newsletter.

I know..I am more abrasive than 36D grit Sandpaper. I certainly do lack the passion I once started with and will most probably never get it back due to lack of ethics in the industry. Here's a most recent case in point and it's not even Vintage...

I gave the wife a couple of Beans the other night because I had too many. As many of you know, she usually spends on Hair, accessories or Botox. She got roped into some women's league dinner last Friday so she said she's be home late.

As you can see from the pics in her home office, she is quite the Yankee Fan. I painstakingly purchased each item for her over the years, pretty careful to weed out the forgeries. I NEEDED A WEED WHACKER the size of a wagon wheel. I personally hate the Yankees...but that's a story for another day.

She came home with this Framed photo of Bernie Williams. I look at the piece of SH** and see it has a GORGEOUS STICKER FROM ACE. No, not the helpful hardware man, the F'en crook who doubles as an Authenticator...Justin Not too PURDY.

I tell her it's a fake and she says "No it's not, look on the back." She says there were all out bidding wars for Mariano Rivera, her 1st love, exceeding $600.00. She already has 2-16 x 20's so she needs another like I need another Antacid pill from all the forgeries. My bet is they were Ace certified Forgeries as well?

Sure it's for Charity and we love to give to our favorite charities, but these forgeries and people making money off them is a GD TRAVESTY. So I hung the stupid thing up and there the forgery sits. It doesn't really hurt anyone, but the thought of Charities being swindled by ass clowns like this

Amazing Memories, Inc 818 888-9971 www.amazingmemoriesinc.com.

Their new name is now Amazing Forgeries INC. I hope these ass wipes enjoy their money ripping off people and the charities they represent.

That's why I don't sugarcoat it. For every Richard Simon and Jim Stinson there are 1000 forgers and other assorted jack asses in the industry. It's neither fun nor funny as the lustre has worn completely off the hobby for me. That's why if you don't know jack...learn it yourself, no need for the fast track.

[Deertick]

I'm sure Justin would come on here and say that that is a forged COA and he would NEVER authenticate that.

This is a perfect example of part of the damage that occurs with this crap. These items were most likely sold to the end consumer. An easy avenue for the forgers to dump their wares without fear of repercussions. I hope that you (or wifey) contact the person in charge of fundraising so that these effers don't get anymore business from them.

[toledo_mudhen]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

I thought the saying was "queer as a $3 bill"?

We're not allowed to say "queer" anymore lest the PC police come knocking on your door.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

We're not allowed to say "queer" anymore lest the PC police come knocking on your door.

Then I guess we cannot quote Psycho (Conrad Dunn) from 'Stripes' -"...any of you homos touch me and I'll kill ya..."

[Bob Lemke]

Actually "queer" was a common underworld name for counterfeit currency.

"Shoving the queer" meant passing bogus notes; means a hate crime today.