What is this - photos of photos - Old Judge

[Archive]

Posted By: martin dalziel

This sold over the weekend. Its a Culvers archive photo of six Washington OJ's, including two Cliff Carroll (?) poses that i don't find listed anywhere.

Anyone know anything about the cards themselves?

http://cgi.ebay.com/CGC-Photo-WASHINGTON-STATESMEN-Baseball-Card-1887-CQ294_W0QQitemZ6235789485

[Archive]

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

It reminds me of one of those photocopy sheets from our great library in DC. Most of the ones I've seen have pictures of more players on them. It's a pretty nice looking piece but I'm not sure if it's worth a hundred bucks... If I get time I'll post a scan of one of those sheets...

[Archive]

Posted By: J Levine

This actually reminds me of the magaizine picture of the Old Judges. I think they were in Life magazine in the 1940s or 1950s but can not be certain. I do know that they featured washington players as well as a t205 cobb and a few other pictures.

Joshua

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

It appears to be a photograph of cards from an original uncut Old Judge sheet that exists. I think the original sheet is in the Libarary of Congress. The eBay offered Culver photo itself was not made in 1887.

I think this grading organization misses the concept that if I draw a picture of John Hancock signing the Declaration of Independance, the drawing isn't from 1776.

[Archive]

Posted By: Phil Michel

http://hdl.loc.gov/loc.pnp/cph.3b16656
Scan of a copy photo of one of the Old Judge sheets at LC. The layout is tighter together. The set at LC have copyright stamps from 1887.

I guess its an original Culver (of a copy). Like George Bain, they made many copy photographs for their own distribution purposes.

-Phil

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe_G.

The eBay example is far, far, far from looking like an original uncut sheet (even a partial uncut sheet) or advertising sheet for that matter. The most telling reason resides in the fact that the cards are spread apart and actually show each cards border edges. Actual uncut sheets, like the one linked to above, have the individual photos close together allowing a single cut between each row and column being all that is required to create individual cards.

Isn't the uncut sheet of the Boston team above stunning?

Regards,
Joe G.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

That Boston sheet is glorious and I wasn't aware that they were issued by team. The advertising posters show players from assorted clubs. That bottom row of portraits is extraordinary. I guess if it were in an auction you could expect it to sell for a couple of bucks.

[Archive]

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Sorry for the poor scan but I had to reduce the graphic to upload it on N54. The actual sheet is about 11.5" x 14" and it's beautiful. The back has a label that says it is "Reproduced from the Collections of the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS".

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

It's hard to read the names but it looks like there are four Connie Macks on the sheet. You don't find these sheets lying around gathering dust in somebody's attic too often these days.

[Archive]

Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

There are two Macks:

2nd row, 5th from left
3rd row, 4th from left

I like that Boston sheet.

[Archive]

Posted By: Phil Michel

There were 10 sheets total registered for copyright. 3 Boston, 2 Washington, 2 Philadelphia, 2 Pittsburg, 1 Indianapolis.

Though the original LC record says they're photocopies, they're actually the same photographic stock used for the production OJs. What doesn't show up in Judge's scan or on LC site are dividing lines indicating marks for cutting, so it sure seems that these were same as production versions. Copyright registrations with bulk printing were common, saving time and money.

-Phil

(edited to fix typo)