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  #1  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:12 PM
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Default PSA Response from President Steve Sloan

https://forums.collectors.com/discus...message-boards

Quote:
PSA is aware of recent hobby message board activity and is conducting its own investigation into the matter.

We take consumer protection seriously, as evidenced by the thousands of altered and counterfeit cards that we reject each year, our on-going investments in grading and holder technology, and long track record of working with law enforcement to eliminate fraud from the hobby.

PSA processes more than two million cards each year and will not let isolated acts from a few dishonest actors deter consumer confidence in our brand. We will act against anyone who violates PSAís Terms & Conditions by knowingly submitting altered cards for authentication and grading. While our actions will be conducted privately, please know that the impact will be felt by those attempting to mislead collectors for personal profit.

As with any financial transaction, if you are unsatisfied with your purchase, contact the seller to initiate a refund request. If the seller is unknown, you may send the card to PSA for review under our Financial Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity.

PSA is well-versed in combating fraud and we have addressed these issues in a professional and direct way for nearly thirty years. After all these years, our hobby is stronger than ever. Rest assured that PSA will not let the actions of a few have any lingering impact on the hobby or the PSA brand.

Steve Sloan
PSA President
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  #2  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:16 PM
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sounds like psa/brent have the same lawyer?
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  #3  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:17 PM
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That's the best they can do?
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  #4  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:23 PM
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That's reassuring. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Well Mr Sloan, you know who your first test case is...It's Brent Mastro, Your boy Blue!!!!!...Be very careful or you'll get a nickname too.

"Well versed at combating fraud"... Har har Hardeeee har har my side is splittin. Your well versed in saying nothing. Ban Brent Mastro and sue him you chicken S***. That will be a start. But you're in bed together you'll give him a character reference probably to assist Brent Mastro the Grifter with his next scam. I'm sure PSA had nothing to do with it my a**.

Last edited by Fuddjcal; 06-04-2019 at 05:28 PM.
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  #6  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:24 PM
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Well-versed in combating fraud. Clearly.
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  #7  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:26 PM
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We will act against anyone who violates PSAís Terms & Conditions by knowingly submitting altered cards for authentication and grading.

Is he referring to PWWC?
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:26 PM
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So much for the good things I had heard about Mr. Sloan. Robo speak like his predecessor.
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  #9  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
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We will act against anyone who violates PSAís Terms & Conditions by knowingly submitting altered cards for authentication and grading.

Is he referring to PWWC?
Gary I assume, who they apparently have allowed to submit for decades lol.
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  #10  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:30 PM
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Hypothetical. So, if I pick up a Goudey Ruth which has been trimmed or recolored, and I submit it to receive an Authentic, am I violating TOS by knowingly submitting al altered card for authentication? And what are the repercussions? Iím not trying to cheat anyone. I know the card is altered. I want them to slab it and say that itís real and altered so people will know what they are getting. Problem?
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  #11  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
sounds like psa/brent have the same lawyer?
More likely the same PR firm specializing in feel good BS robo speak that ignores the elephants in the room.
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  #12  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Gary I assume, who they apparently have allowed to submit for decades lol.
Aren't they one in the same?
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  #13  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
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Aren't they one in the same?
Not clear to me if Brent was submitting for him. It's irrelevant, but I can't make that assumption at this point.
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  #14  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:33 PM
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Does anyone in this hobby have any integrity? I mean among the major players. Or are they all corrupted by money?
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  #15  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:33 PM
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Default huh?

"As with any financial transaction, if you are unsatisfied with your purchase, contact the seller to initiate a refund request. If the seller is unknown, you may send the card to PSA for review under our Financial Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity."


Seems like they are trying to pass the buck to the seller, as if the seller in all instances should provide the financial guarantee if the seller is known. So if the seller does not initiate the process for financial reimbursement, what happens then?

This doesn't seem consistent with what they say on their website: https://www.psacard.com/about/financialguarantee

"PSA guarantees that all cards submitted to it shall be graded in accordance with PSA grading standards and under the procedures of PSA.

If PSA, in fact, concludes that the card in question no longer merits the PSA grade assigned or fails PSAís authenticity standards, PSA will either:

Buy the card from the submitter at the current market value if the card can no longer receive a numerical grade under PSA's standards or,

Refund the difference in value between the original PSA grade and the current PSA grade if the grade is lowered. In this case, the card will also be returned to the customer along with the refund for the difference in value.

The current market value is determined by PSA, based in part on Sports Market Report and SMR Online values and/or recent prices realized from the marketplace. PSA will be the sole determiner of the current market value."
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  #16  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Not clear to me if Brent was submitting for him. It's irrelevant, but I can't make that assumption at this point.
I thought there was proof that Moser & PWWC submissions to PSA were on the same numbers.
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  #17  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:36 PM
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As if I am going to go to someone I bought a card from 10 years ago and ask to return it. WTF.
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  #18  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
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I thought there was proof that Moser & PWWC submissions to PSA were on the same numbers.
I don't believe so, I don't think anyone can tell who submitted the cards.
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  #19  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon512 View Post
"As with any financial transaction, if you are unsatisfied with your purchase, contact the seller to initiate a refund request. If the seller is unknown, you may send the card to PSA for review under our Financial Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity."
It's funny; I think I gave him that idea when I recommended in email that he have all PWCC customers send them back to PWCC for refunds.

My reasoning was that if the purchase never happened, and PWCC was in on the fraud, PSA would have minimal or zero liability.
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Last edited by swarmee; 06-04-2019 at 05:42 PM.
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  #20  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
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I don't believe so, I don't think anyone can tell who submitted the cards.
Canít PSA tell who submitted the cards. I would think they should be able to, but donít hold your breath. Whatís good for the Registry is good for the hobby.
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  #21  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:45 PM
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  #22  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:46 PM
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Canít PSA tell who submitted the cards. I would think they should be able to, but donít hold your breath. Whatís good for the Registry is good for the hobby.
Of course they know. They are as usual putting the burden back on the collector. WIWAG redux.
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  #23  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:47 PM
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That's the best they can do?
Didn't read all the comments posted, but I was wondering the same thing. .
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  #24  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:47 PM
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I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt and we all deserve second chances in life but I'm sorry that response is a little weak. How about taking responsibility for your part and telling us what you're going to do to fix things.

Last edited by Davidlisa; 06-04-2019 at 05:49 PM.
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  #25  
Old 06-04-2019, 05:54 PM
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While our actions will be conducted privately, please know that the impact will be felt by those attempting to mislead collectors for personal profit.
This is where they lose trust. Things have been kept in private for way too long.
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  #26  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:00 PM
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This is where they lose trust. Things have been kept in private for way too long.
Jesus the day I agree 100 percent with David, something must be wrong.
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  #27  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:05 PM
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  #28  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:07 PM
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As with any financial transaction, if you are unsatisfied with your purchase, contact the seller to initiate a refund request.

PSA’s financial guarantee doesn’t protect the original submitter. If PWCC really is submitting most of these cards, it may put them in a pickle (and reduce the potential warranty exposure).

First smart thing I’ve seen anyone do in this whole debacle.

Last edited by jhs5120; 06-04-2019 at 06:10 PM.
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  #29  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:12 PM
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Jesus the day I agree 100 percent with David, something must be wrong.
Well, it is lightning here in Houston. I better stay indoors.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jhs5120 View Post
As with any financial transaction, if you are unsatisfied with your purchase, contact the seller to initiate a refund request.

PSA’s financial guarantee doesn’t protect the original submitter. If PWCC really is submitting most of these cards, it may put them in a pickle (and reduce the potential warranty exposure).

First smart thing I’ve seen anyone do in this whole debacle.
Exactly. PWCC is the seller and PSA is pissed at them. PSA also scrubbed their site of PWCC. Clearly PWCC played a big part in this. Time will tell, hopefully.

Edit to add PSA removed SMR article on PWCC, didn't scrub them entirely.

Last edited by MULLINS5; 06-04-2019 at 06:22 PM.
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  #31  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:17 PM
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Well, it is lightning here in Houston. I better stay indoors.
It's surreal. A massive scandal showing potentially thousands of altered PSA cards is revealed, and the response is to reassure us PSA is well-versed at detecting fraud, I mean WTF is going on here? Who do they think they're talking to?
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2019 at 06:17 PM.
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  #32  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:18 PM
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Exactly. PWCC is the seller and PSA is pissed at them. PSA also scrubbed their site of PWCC. Clearly PWCC played a big part in this. Time will tell, hopefully.
Without a list of cards coming from them it's useless drivel. They never provided one in WIWAG.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-04-2019 at 06:20 PM.
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  #33  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:20 PM
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It's funny; I think I gave him that idea when I recommended in email that he have all PWCC customers send them back to PWCC for refunds.

My reasoning was that if the purchase never happened, and PWCC was in on the fraud, PSA would have minimal or zero liability.
I think you hit the nail on the head John in terms of them pointing back to the seller for refunds. They probably feel they could make a good case that PWCC was in on it somehow.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:20 PM
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The way I see it is that PSA in on the hook for almost one million dollars worth of liability with their guaranty.
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  #35  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:24 PM
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Without a list of cards coming from them it's useless drivel. They never provided one in WIWAG.
Didn't you hear? The list is coming in the "near future"!
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:25 PM
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I think you hit the nail on the head John in terms of them pointing back to the seller for refunds. They probably feel they could make a good case that PWCC was in on it somehow.
The right thing would be for PSA to get those cards in their possession, but it would cost a small fortune.
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  #37  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:29 PM
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I think you hit the nail on the head John in terms of them pointing back to the seller for refunds. They probably feel they could make a good case that PWCC was in on it somehow.
Brent is on video promising to reimburse buyers for fraudulent cards submitted through PWCC. Watch the 1 hour long video. He doesn't say which cards those are, so all of them should go back to PWCC. Maybe his lawyer will come out with a list of affected cards submitted by PWCC so that he won't get every single one back to his company.
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  #38  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Brent is on video promising to reimburse buyers for fraudulent cards submitted through PWCC. Watch the 1 hour long video. He doesn't say which cards those are, so all of them should go back to PWCC. Maybe his lawyer will come out with a list of affected cards submitted by PWCC so that he won't get every single one back to his company.
He admitted submitting cards for Gary?
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Brent is on video promising to reimburse buyers for fraudulent cards submitted through PWCC. Watch the 1 hour long video. He doesn't say which cards those are, so all of them should go back to PWCC. Maybe his lawyer will come out with a list of affected cards submitted by PWCC so that he won't get every single one back to his company.
I watched the hour long video & thought it was all B.S. He tried to stick up for PSA about not being able to see alterations. I think it's called CYA.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:34 PM
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He says he submitted cards for consignors, nonspecifically.
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SGC: Closed auto authentication business
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Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #41  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:34 PM
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The smart thing to do by PSA is to put the blame on one rogue grader...even if he's not guilty. Offer him a nice severance package or something. When all this is over, PSA has to admit one of two things: (1) they had a grader on the take and they took care of the situation or (2) they're totally incompetent. Which is better from a business perspective?
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  #42  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:36 PM
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The smart thing to do by PSA is to put the blame on one rogue grader...even if he's not guilty.
Might work for the public. Won't work for the Feds.
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  #43  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:39 PM
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Sounds like he's pointing the finger away from PSA...talking only about the "actors" who submit. What about the "actors" who graded them? How does that get explained?
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  #44  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:50 PM
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Sounds like he's pointing the finger away from PSA...talking only about the "actors" who submit. What about the "actors" who graded them? How does that get explained?
Under oath. Theyíre getting sued.
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  #45  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:51 PM
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Might work for the public. Won't work for the Feds.
True
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  #46  
Old 06-04-2019, 06:56 PM
doug.goodman doug.goodman is offline
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From Sloan's note : "PSA processes more than two million cards each year"

40,000 per week (based on a 50 week year)
8,000 per day (based on a 5 day week)
666 per hour (based on a 12 hour day, and my love of Satan)
11 per minute

That means 5.4 seconds multiplied by the number of graders there are, per card.

Doug "just saying" Goodman
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  #47  
Old 06-04-2019, 07:00 PM
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JeremyW JeremyW is offline
Jeremy W.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
He says he submitted cards for consignors, nonspecifically.
That might be his downfall.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:02 PM
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JeremyW JeremyW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Under oath. They’re getting sued.
Really? Love to see it.

Last edited by JeremyW; 06-04-2019 at 07:03 PM.
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  #49  
Old 06-04-2019, 07:07 PM
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rdwyer rdwyer is offline
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Back in the day, I was privileged to enter the "Vault" at GAI. I was there to educate the authenticator of cigarette packs per Steve Rochi's request. I was shown the process of grading cards. The first thing they always did was measure the card. Doesn't make any sense to do anything else after that if the card was trimmed because the card would be graded authentic. They then looked for altering. Same thing, doesn't make any sense to do anything else after that if the card was altered because the card would be graded authentic.. Then they look at the centering, corners. etc. And further evaluated the card for printer defects, creases, etc.

So how is it that PSA could skip the first part of the process for all those trimmed cards unless it was deliberate? I know that GAI was doing the same, and that their opinion on cards today are worthless. But still they had a procedure.
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Last edited by rdwyer; 06-04-2019 at 07:23 PM.
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  #50  
Old 06-04-2019, 07:09 PM
ejharrington ejharrington is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott L. View Post
I think you hit the nail on the head John in terms of them pointing back to the seller for refunds. They probably feel they could make a good case that PWCC was in on it somehow.
Is PWCC considered the seller or the auctioneer?
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