PSA Response from President Steve Sloan

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I won't bid in that auction unless there's a card I need.

Yes. That.

[Republicaninmass]

I'm thinking about starting a 48 leaf PSA set buying from PWCC.

They have the best stuff
They must instill trust since people are still buying/defending them
The cards just have such high eye appeal these days
Pwcc/ebay/psa all over some type of retun or guarantee if the card get posted on blow out.


What, me worry?

[swarmee]

9 days after this tepid letter was uploaded to their message board, it still has not been posted on the front page of www.psacard.com and only has 2,000 page views.
It has not been crossposted to their Facebook page.
It has not been read by their representatives on the PSA hour with Vintage Breaks or the Radio Show.

PSA: still with its head in the sand hoping this will blow over.

Would be nice to know how many checks they've written, with the total value, as well as the same figures for PWCC.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

9 days after this tepid letter was uploaded to their message board, it still has not been posted on the front page of www.psacard.com and only has 2,000 page views.
It has not been crossposted to their Facebook page.
It has not been read by their representatives on the PSA hour with Vintage Breaks or the Radio Show.

PSA: still with its head in the sand hoping this will blow over.

Would be nice to know how many checks they've written, with the total value, as well as the same figures for PWCC.

1000 are probably yours, John. Laughing with you not at you. This is a classic page out of the playbook, unfortunately.

[JeremyW]

Just a question, but isn't PSA on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars of guaranty money on all of the altered cards?

[swarmee]

We think it's closer to millions by now. But if they can get PWCC to refund, that limits their exposure.

[egbeachley]

Yes, well over $1 million by now. Some numbers are lower as they are tracking the gain between alterations. But the guaranty would be based on the latest price.

I seriously doubt PWCC is doing many refunds. Their profit on each sale is just a portion of their fee, less eBay fees and labor costs. Probably just 2% or so per card at best. Assuming they didn’t get a cut from Moser, of course.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by swarmee

We think it's closer to millions by now. But if they can get PWCC to refund, that limits their exposure.

Massive card doctoring has been going on for 12+ years by numerous dealers selling PSA-graded cards. My estimation is that PSA's liability would easily be in the tens of millions if not eclipsing one hundred million dollars - seriously.

Also, Collectors Universe's coin grading company once tried to sue dealers who allegedly intentionally submitted doctored coins claiming the dealers were liable and not CU for the damages. CU's case was tossed out of court. I don't see any difference here.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by swarmee

9 days after this tepid letter was uploaded to their message board, it still has not been posted on the front page of www.psacard.com and only has 2,000 page views.
It has not been crossposted to their facebook page.
It has not been read by their representatives on the psa hour with vintage breaks or the radio show.

Psa: Still with its head in the sand hoping this will blow over.

Would be nice to know how many checks they've written, with the total value, as well as the same figures for pwcc.

zero

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

zero

Agree...ZERO.

Perhaps the blind will finally stop supporting PSA when they realize the "guarantee" is worthless, and come to the stark realization that they've been played.

But based on many of the responses here (and the discouraging polls) it may take some time.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I'm thinking about starting a 48 leaf PSA set buying from PWCC.

They have the best stuff
They must instill trust since people are still buying/defending them
The cards just have such high eye appeal these days
Pwcc/ebay/psa all over some type of retun or guarantee if the card get posted on blow out.


What, me worry?

Ted, contact Gary to see if you can buy directly out of his vault. He's been massaging 48 leaf cards for 15 years.

TMZ is reporting his nickname "scissor hands" is because of his hair line so you have NOTHING to be concerned about.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by bigfish

Ted, contact Gary to see if you can buy directly out of his vault. He's been massaging 48 leaf cards for 15 years.

TMZ is reporting his nickname "scissor hands" is because of his hair line so you have NOTHING to be concerned about.

Everyone should take a hard look at the 1948 Leaf Football Cards revealed over the last few hours on Blowout (pages 120 - 122).

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=122

These reveals show no signs of slowing down. The amount of border being cut away on all of these cards is nothing short of stunning... especially the Bill Dudley examples.

There is no possible way even the most novice grader could overlook this much missing cardboard. This can no longer be written off as ineptitude or a "hurried" grader. There has to be an ulterior motive of some kind. A 2nd Grade Kid could tell you in a heartbeat that these cards are way undersized.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Everyone should take a hard look at the 1948 Leaf Football Cards revealed over the last few hours on Blowout (pages 120 - 122).

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=122

These reveals show no signs of slowing down. The amount of border being cut away on all of these cards is nothing short of stunning... especially the Bill Dudley examples.

There is no possible way even the most novice grader could overlook this much missing cardboard. This can no longer be written off as ineptitude or a "hurried" grader. There has to be an ulterior motive of some kind. A 2nd Grade Kid could tell you in a heartbeat that these cards are way undersized.

It is astonishing, for sure.

This is still my favorite.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2979

But recall: PSA is well-versed at combating fraud, or whatever Sloan said.

[perezfan]

Quote:
PSA is aware of recent hobby message board activity and is conducting its own investigation into the matter.

We take consumer protection seriously, as evidenced by the thousands of altered and counterfeit cards that we reject each year, our on-going investments in grading and holder technology, and long track record of working with law enforcement to eliminate fraud from the hobby.

PSA processes more than two million cards each year and will not let isolated acts from a few dishonest actors deter consumer confidence in our brand. We will act against anyone who violates PSA’s Terms & Conditions by knowingly submitting altered cards for authentication and grading. While our actions will be conducted privately, please know that the impact will be felt by those attempting to mislead collectors for personal profit.

As with any financial transaction, if you are unsatisfied with your purchase, contact the seller to initiate a refund request. If the seller is unknown, you may send the card to PSA for review under our Financial Guarantee of Grade and Authenticity.

PSA is well-versed in combating fraud and we have addressed these issues in a professional and direct way for nearly thirty years. After all these years, our hobby is stronger than ever. Rest assured that PSA will not let the actions of a few have any lingering impact on the hobby or the PSA brand.

Steve Sloan
PSA President
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just thought it was a good time to re-post the Letter that kicked off this thread. They show no remorse, shirk all responsibility, and lay the blame completely upon others. It shows no regard for the now compromised state of the hobby and there's no admittance of any wrongdoing on their part.

What a meaningless and callous written statement. It says nothing, as the hundreds of "mistakes" posted on BO speak for themselves.

[Peter_Spaeth]

My favorite part is still the "unknown seller."

It's amazing how disingenuous people can be.

As one of my best friends likes to say, never surprised, always disappointed.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My favorite part is still the "unknown seller."

It's amazing how disingenuous people can be.

As one of my best friends likes to say, never surprised, always disappointed.

Yeah, that may be the best part!


A serious question for Peter, and/or any of the legal experts here...

When PSA and PWCC say "We are working with Law Enforcement", do they mean...

A. We are complying with Law Enforcement's requests for us to provide full disclosure into our own practices.

B. We are accompanying Law Enforcement in the quest to uncover the "bad apples" (which does not include ourselves)

or

C. It's just a meaningless phrase coined by an attorney to give the impression they care, but has no actual relevance.

Hoping someone can clarify, as it seems quite vague... thanks!

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Everyone should take a hard look at the 1948 Leaf Football Cards revealed over the last few hours on Blowout (pages 120 - 122).

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=122

These reveals show no signs of slowing down. The amount of border being cut away on all of these cards is nothing short of stunning... especially the Bill Dudley examples.

There is no possible way even the most novice grader could overlook this much missing cardboard. This can no longer be written off as ineptitude or a "hurried" grader. There has to be an ulterior motive of some kind. A 2nd Grade Kid could tell you in a heartbeat that these cards are way undersized.

We sheep are starting to figure out the clues from PSA and the TPG's. They said that they employ something like 20+ "graders". They didn't say what grade at this point. But later they even mention that once a card has been initially reviewed it has to go to a "2nd grader" for confirmation.

So right here you have the evidence and the explanation. The graders are all 2nd-graders. Once they become 3rd-graders, they are replaced. So none have more than one school year of experience grading cards because then they are replaced by another one. In second grade, everything they do is either a 9 or a 10.

A simple explanation that explains how all of these cards are getting missed.

The whole thing was right in front of our faces and we all missed it.

[drcy]

Tell the wife after spending the night in the jail, "I was working with law enforcement."

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Bram99

We sheep are starting to figure out the clues from PSA and the TPG's. They said that they employ something like 20+ "graders". They didn't say what grade at this point. But later they even mention that once a card has been initially reviewed it has to go to a "2nd grader" for confirmation.

So right here you have the evidence and the explanation. The graders are all 2nd-graders. Once they become 3rd-graders, they are replaced. So none have more than one school year of experience grading cards because then they are replaced by another one. In second grade, everything they do is either a 9 or a 10.

A simple explanation that explains how all of these cards are getting missed.

The whole thing was right in front of our faces and we all missed it.

But wait, when he says that once a card has been initially reviewed it goes to a "2nd Grader" for confirmation, which seems to distinguish this grader from the initial one. Since I would suspect the confirming Grader would be more senior than the Initial grader, wouldn't that make the initial grader a 1st Grader?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Bram99

We sheep are starting to figure out the clues from PSA and the TPG's. They said that they employ something like 20+ "graders". They didn't say what grade at this point. But later they even mention that once a card has been initially reviewed it has to go to a "2nd grader" for confirmation.

So right here you have the evidence and the explanation. The graders are all 2nd-graders. Once they become 3rd-graders, they are replaced. So none have more than one school year of experience grading cards because then they are replaced by another one. In second grade, everything they do is either a 9 or a 10.

A simple explanation that explains how all of these cards are getting missed.

The whole thing was right in front of our faces and we all missed it.

I wonder if I could teach my soon to be 2nd grader how to grade? I think she'd be pretty good at it, but the cards may get Cheeto stains...

[drcy]

Originally Posted by steve B

I wonder if I could teach my soon to be 2nd grader how to grade? I think she'd be pretty good at it, but the cards may get Cheeto stains...

They need six graders just be out of elementary school.

[mikemb]

Originally Posted by steve B

I wonder if I could teach my soon to be 2nd grader how to grade? I think she'd be pretty good at it, but the cards may get Cheeto stains...

I think there is a person who can get the Cheeto stains out of the cards. Mike