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#1
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Mantle vs. Ruth
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I agree with virtually all of your Mantle related comments except one. Injuries are NOT the sole reason Mantle feel short of his incredible potential, but rather his fondness of alcoholic beverages. Let's be honest here...we are talking about someone who spent most of his playing career in a seemingly infinite number of bars as late as 3:00/4:00 AM. Obviously playing many games with little to no sleep at all, Mickey unquestionably wasted a myriad of at-bats in a 'comatose-like' state, and we can only wonder how truly great he would have been had he not chose to drink his life away. In retrospect, I find Mantle's accomplishments absolutely amazing considering his rather loose lifestyle, justifying Ted Williams comment that Mantle was the most athletically gifted ballplayer he ever saw. Joe |
#2
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If you are going to do a comparison though, you need Mays in the numbers. Some how your numbers keep missing Mays. You really do have to look at more than just home runs. Mays is the best comparison because they played the same position during the same period. You can not use stats to say that Mantle's cards are worth more than his counterparts. Card Values-to-talent either his cards are overvalued or everyone else is undervalued. Quote:
Mantle had 461 center, 457 left alley, and 407 right alley. Again Mantle was merely the best in the AL. He just wasn't the overall best of his generation unless Home Runs are the only thing that matters, but even then it is hard to say that he was the BEST when he played at the same time as Aaron and Mays, and overlapped with Musial.
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#3
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The problem is in trying to evaluate the value of Mantle's cards based on his stats and comparing both the stats and card values to his contemporaries. For whatever reason, Mays, Aaron, Musial etc just never had the broad appeal to collectors that Mantle does.
When the hobby boomed in the 80's Mantle's cards were the first to take off. They continue to be the premier card in any set they are in to this day. It clearly transcends statistics. |
#4
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The stars aligned for Mantle-- he had the talent, the looks, the name, the personality, the team, the stage, and the time. Some of these things were beyond his control but it doesn't change the fact that they were. And that he is and remains the brightest star in the Post War card collecting universe. In fact one of the reasons he fascinates me, and the 311 fascinates me, is that they are examples of a perfect storm, the coalescing of all these factors to create a star.
Mick Jagger or DiCaprio shouldn't be faulted if they were aided by timing and serendipity, and if there have been better performers from a sheer skill standpoint who didn't hit the cosmic lotto that they did. There will always be people as good as others who for a variety of factors never become as famous or desired. Then we have factors like how he implored people not to make his mistakes, and how he hit all those WS homers. Again, team and opportunity were given him, but that's moot-- he was there and did what he did. Ultimately, no post war card will ever dethrone the 311.
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instagram: mattyc_collection Last edited by MattyC; 05-09-2014 at 12:46 PM. |
#5
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The Goudey Ruths were later in Ruth's career. Also there are 4 of them so if there were only 1 at the same printing levels, the card would likely sell for 4x or more the price it goes for now.
Also many people consider the 52 Mantle to be his, or one of his, rookie card(s). I know that is not true but it's the perception that matters. It is a very early card of his and his most iconic. If comparing to Ruths best and most iconic cards (Baltimore News and m101's) we know who's cards trumps who's. They're all great and classic cards but there are far more Ruths being that there are four in the set. The total number of Goudeys at any given time always far exceeds the amount of 52 Mantles out there for sale.
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Er1ck.L. ---D381 seeker http://www.flickr.com/photos/30236659@N04/sets/ Last edited by yanksfan09; 05-09-2014 at 01:19 PM. |
#6
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Quote:
Mick had something like 17 different broken bones. As somebody that's had north of that figure, I can tell you it's just hard getting out of bed, let alone competing against the best baseball players in the world.
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Building these sets: T206, 1953 Bowman Color, 1975 Topps. Great transactions with: piedmont150, Cardboard Junkie, z28jd, t206blogcom, tinkertoeverstochance, trobba, Texxxx, marcdelpercio, t206hound, zachs, tolstoi, IronHorse 2130, AndyG09, BBT206, jtschantz, lug-nut, leaflover, Abravefan11, mpemulis, btcarfagno, BlueSky, and Frankbmd. |
#7
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pop reports
PSA, SGC, and Beckett (combined) population reports:
1952 Topps Mickey Mantle - 1639 TOTAL 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #53 - 1073 TOTAL 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #149 - 1101 TOTAL 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #181 - 1248 TOTAL 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth #144 - 1424 TOTAL ---- Any one Ruth appears to be tougher than the Mantle. |
#8
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I think the demand for the Mantle relative to any of those Ruths is more than enough to offset the few hundred greater in pop. Not to mention those four Ruths are four offerings of the same player in the same set, versus the one Mantle in the 52T, and it being the key card.
I'd also hazard that the Mantle has far more crossovers than any of the Ruths, which would mitigate the pop disparity somewhat. But end of the day, sheer pop data is just one part of the equation. In this case I think other parts, such as demand and proximity to player's rookie year, outweigh the pop comparisons and speak to why the #311 is worth more grade-for-grade.
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instagram: mattyc_collection Last edited by MattyC; 05-10-2014 at 10:52 PM. |
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