With all the auctions out there

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

You and Peter have been in the game too long. You've accepted it as normal and come up with some way to rationalize it. Just because something has always been done, doesn't mean it has to be done.

eBay is an auction house. eBay doesn't charge a buyer's premium. What's that you say? eBay doesn't have overhead? Their 12,000+ employees work for free?

Who doesn't get it Peter?

You forget Ebay doesn't do most of the work. They are the discount broker in the auction world. They do not research items, list items, scan items, package items, solicit consignments, attend shows, promote the sale, etc. All of these tasks are done by the seller on Ebay, who ultimately still has to pay Ebay a fee for using their platform. Ebay is simply just a hosting company. This would be comparable to the AH using Simpleauctionsite or Createauction as the platform for their auction. Out of the buyer premium charged, the AH pays for whichever company that hosts the auction (unless, of course, they built and maintain the platform themselves). When you list on Ebay you are taking the role of the AH and just using their platform.

Regarding who pays the AH fee. Mathematically, it doesn't matter. Either the buyer pays it in the form of a buyer's premium or the consignor pays it in the form of a seller premium. The total amount the the buyer pays should never be different. The auction house needs to net $x per $y in sales in order to stay in business.

The big difference is the AH needs to solicit consignments. Without consignors the auction house will not survive. Psychologically, it is a lot easier to convince someone to consign something with zero fees then it is to tell them they will pay 10 or 20%, especially if another auction house is offering zero fees. Losing consignors to try to change a process everyone else follows does not seem like a smart business plan to me.

DJ

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ultimately, whether you call it a seller's fee or a buyer's premium is just semantics. Rob, I don't know why you don't grasp this.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ultimately, whether you call it a seller's fee or a buyer's premium is just semantics. Rob, I don't know why you don't grasp this.

I can’t speak for Rob, of course, but I think some folks find it more enjoyable to not grasp that concept and be angry about it.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ultimately, whether you call it a seller's fee or a buyer's premium is just semantics. Rob, I don't know why you don't grasp this.

If it's just semantics...Why bother calling it a "buyer's premium"?

If it's just semantics...Why don't they get rid of it and just take 20% out of the high bid? In your world it's all the same right?

If the seller is paying everything, why do we need a buyer's premium at all?

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I honestly don't care where an item is for sale: ebay, auction house, or here on the BST, I know what I am willing to pay and that is that. If I know I am participating in an auction that charges a buyers premium, I factor that into my bid amount.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

If it's just semantics...Why bother calling it a "buyer's premium"?

If it's just semantics...Why don't they get rid of it and just take 20% out of the high bid? In your world it's all the same right?

If the seller is paying everything, why do we need a buyer's premium at all?

You don't see that the 20 percent fee with an auction house is less money the consignor receives? Most buyers will bid the same amount in either venue and just factor in the BP when making a maximum bid.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

You don't see that the 20 percent fee with an auction house is less money the consignor receives? Most buyers will bid the same amount in either venue and just factor in the BP when making a maximum bid.

I can't believe how many of you are fooled by this. Or maybe you have friends in the business...or maybe you are in the business.

If it was an even exchange each and every time...The high bid is the high bid regardless of BP or not....then answer my question. Why confuse the situation with a buyer's premium instead of just taking 20% off the high bid at the end?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yes Rob, the entire board is stupid and you alone get it because you're so savvy. Happy now?

Here's something to ponder though: buyer's premiums depress hammer prices. The high bid is NOT the high bid independent of the premium, it's a function of the premium. Think about it, and maybe you'll finally actually see what everyone here is talking about.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I can't believe how many of you are fooled by this. Or maybe you have friends in the business...or maybe you are in the business.

If it was an even exchange each and every time...The high bid is the high bid regardless of BP or not....then answer my question. Why confuse the situation with a buyer's premium instead of just taking 20% off the high bid at the end?

I am not even really sure what your argument is. Taking 20 percent off the top of the high bid at the end or calling it a "buyer's premium" and adding 20 percent is the same thing in terms of total money in the pocket of the consignor. What is there even to get "fooled" on? A card that sells for $1,000 total with a 20 percent BP only nets the consignor $800.

Not just in this situation, but in life as a whole, when your argument comes down to everyone else is wrong and I am the only person who understands what is going on, it is usually time for an honest reflection.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I am not even really sure what your argument is. Taking 20 percent off the top of the high bid at the end or calling it a "buyer's premium" and adding 20 percent is the same thing in terms of total money in the pocket of the consignor. What is there even to get "fooled" on? A card that sells for $1,000 total with a 20 percent BP only nets the consignor $800.

Not just in this situation, but in life as a whole, when your argument comes down to everyone else is wrong and I am the only person who understands what is going on, it is usually time for an honest reflection.

Not just in this situation, but in life as a whole, when a person repeatedly refuses to answer a question, it's because he doesn't like the answer he has to give.

If it's all the same in the end, why is there a buyer's premium?

Just to trick those dim consignors?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

I can't believe how many of you are fooled by this. Or maybe you have friends in the business...or maybe you are in the business.

If it was an even exchange each and every time...The high bid is the high bid regardless of BP or not....then answer my question. Why confuse the situation with a buyer's premium instead of just taking 20% off the high bid at the end?

Because a 20% buyers premium means I only pay a 16 2/3% consignment fee. And if my consignment is nice enough i can negotiate part of the BP as well. This is better than the AH taking 20% of the final price. And in a few rare instances that you keep bringing up some people actually forget about the bp all together, so I would get an extra 20% for my consignment.

The first priority for an auction house should be getting quality consignments. Collectors will bid from anyone who has the stuff they want. If you dont believe that read the candiman thread.

[PowderedH2O]

I'll answer the original question. I prefer ebay for reasons of convenience, and because I don't feel like taking extra time to figure out the final costs of things on auction houses. I bought some comics last year and set some really low bids through one of the major auction houses we discuss here often. The comics were worth about $35 each and I won the auctions for about $16 each. In my mind I had done really well. Then a buyer's premium was added, plus a shipping fee that was about twice what actual shipping cost, and before I knew it I had paid about the same as a BIN on ebay. So, I will just do ebay unless it is some unusual item that never pops up.

[Fballguy]

Now this was a cogent reply. The problem with the first paragraph is it's based on the faulty notion that the high bid is the high bid regardless of BP or not. No doubt some take it into account when bidding. Just as undoubtedly others do not.

Can't really argue with a lot in the second paragraph except to say you're contradicting what Peter and others are saying that it's just semantics...unless you're implying the consignors are too dumb to know the difference.

And when talking about business plans...This sounds like a very antiquated one. With the internet, Amazon, eBay, etc...I think that once the dinosaurs of this hobby...the ones who accept the status quo just because it's all they've ever known...become extinct...this business plan will be a hard sell to the next generation.

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Regarding who pays the AH fee. Mathematically, it doesn't matter. Either the buyer pays it in the form of a buyer's premium or the consignor pays it in the form of a seller premium. The total amount the the buyer pays should never be different. The auction house needs to net $x per $y in sales in order to stay in business.

The big difference is the AH needs to solicit consignments. Without consignors the auction house will not survive. Psychologically, it is a lot easier to convince someone to consign something with zero fees then it is to tell them they will pay 10 or 20%, especially if another auction house is offering zero fees. Losing consignors to try to change a process everyone else follows does not seem like a smart business plan to me.

DJ

[Peter_Spaeth]

IMO, it is just semantics. As a bidder or as a consignor, I could not care less what you call the AH's cut. And as a bidder, I don't care at all about the percentage, except as an input to a calcuation.

If there truly were a large number of bidders out there who are so clueless that they don't take the premium into account when bidding, then I would have a different perspective, but I don't believe it.