Mount Rushmore of Industry Icons

[polakoff]

I write a blog for a local card shop, and in conjunction with the owner (who has considerable pull in the industry), we are developing the Mount Rushmore of Sports Card Industry Icons. (Unless otherwise told it's allowed by Leon, I won't mention the shop or the blog so as to not seem like I am advertising.) We are endeavoring to find the 4 most influential people on the sports card industry.

Criteria:
- Impact on Sports Card Collecting
- Long-term importance to the industry
- An innovator within the industry
- Brings favorable attention to the industry
- Favorable view from the industry
- Personal Passion towards the industry
- Did they expand the market
- Industry Icon

Our research thus far has uncovered a wide range of nominees:
- Sy Berger
- Jim Beckett
- Mickey Mantle
- David Hall
- Pierre Omidyar
- Richard McWilliam
- Jefferson Burdick
- Mike Berkus
- Honus Wagner
- Mr Mint
- Michael Jordan
- Don West
- Wayne Gretzky
- Larry Fritsch
- Bill Mastro

I'm asking for some more nominees here as Net54 is far and away the most knowledgeable group of people in the sports card world and I am hoping to uncover some more deserving nominees. For example, I wouldn't have given Gretzky a shot, until the argument was made that his greatest contribution was actually his purchase of the Wagner, which highlighted the value of vintage cards on a world stage and legitimized third party grading (although we all know how that one ended).

Are there others you think are deserving of this honor? After compiling a list of nominees, we will whittle them down to a final list for voting.

Thanks in advance!

[olecow]

Kit Young

[Orioles1954]

Never mind.

[conor912]

Interesting. My first thought, given what I understand to be what you're asking, is that players have no place on the list.

I think Burdick and Mr. Mint are slam dunks. After that it gets hard. I think Beckett, Berger, and Fritsch are solid options, and I think Enos Goudey at least deserves a mention, if not consideration. The Mastro argument will be a good one, but one I steer clear of.

[cardinalcollector]

Pioneer Buck Barker.

[Snapolit1]

Just to piss people off I will nominate Brett H. from PWCC.

Sells how many tens upon tens of thousands of cards a year. Has tried to create financial metrics for the collecting industry. Personally not a huge fan but hard to deny the impact PWCC has had.

[orioles70]

Gotta have the industry "B's" on there...Burdick for his cataloging, Berger for his innovation of products and Beckett for making collecting a popular hobby to the masses.

The 4th one is a little tougher...am torn between Mantle who was such a hero to so many and a hobby ambassador to early card shows drawing people in to rediscover their youth...and Fritsch who made those cards of our youth readily available by mail via his catalogs long before card shows were popular....toss a coin or have 5 on the mountain.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[conor912]

Lionel Carter probably deserve at least a mention here, too.

[commishbob]

I'd add Fritsch, Michael Aronstein and Renata Galasso to the list on nominees. I think all merit consideration.



Alan Rosen treated me like dirt in my limited dealings with him. But he was influential.

[vthobby]

is a slam dunk. Players have no business on this "mountain".

Mr. Carter is an icon.

Peace, Mike

[jchcollins]

Bob Lemke.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Not Rushmore, but definitely HOF Dick Perez

[nickedson]

I've always admired the guys who published these hobby publications - John Stommen founder of SCD; Dan Dischley, The Trader Speaks and Frank and Vivian Barning, Baseball Hobby News -not to mention several others.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by orioles70

Gotta have the industry "B's" on there...Burdick for his cataloging, Berger for his innovation of products and Beckett for making collecting a popular hobby to the masses.

The 4th one is a little tougher...am torn between Mantle who was such a hero to so many and a hobby ambassador to early card shows drawing people in to rediscover their youth...and Fritsch who made those cards of our youth readily available by mail via his catalogs long before card shows were popular....toss a coin or have 5 on the mountain.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I agree with the 3 Bs. Woody Gelman would be my #4, the first real mail order dealer long before Fritsch. I can't believe no mentions until page 4.

Mickey Mantle who was a jerk to collectors at card shows for years? No way. I would put him with Mastro and Mr. Mint in the group the have no business on a Mount Rushmore of the hobby.

[Yoda]

How about Dennis Purdy who. through his magazine VCBC, tried to point out some of the bad actors in the hobby? Anybody remember his articles about the slimy Alan Hager?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

How about Dennis Purdy who. through his magazine VCBC, tried to point out some of the bad actors in the hobby? Anybody remember his articles about the slimy Alan Hager?

His article on Dan Desmond and card alteration was priceless and profoundly disturbing.

[1880nonsports]

as I'm pretty particular about whose image I would put on a rock that was interesting enough just as a rock.....

J Burdick
E W Tigre

[tedzan]

Reading through all these posts here, what is certainly apparent to me is that we need more than "Mt Rushmore",
with respect to contenders which have enriched this hobby.
I could think of at least a dozen (or more) worthy candidates, whose images should be sculptured on a mountain.
This then begs the next question....which mountain ?

I would recommend the "mile-high" mountain in northern Maine, Mt. Katahdin. It rises 5267 feet above sea level.

It's tree line ends at approx. 3000 feet. The rest of this mountain is sheer rock. So, we can carve out a number of
"hobby heroes" on it.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Yoda

How about Dennis Purdy who. through his magazine VCBC, tried to point out some of the bad actors in the hobby? Anybody remember his articles about the slimy Alan Hager?

Haha...Alan Hager threatened to sue me back in the olden days of Usenet.

[rommesc]

I am completely shocked that nobody mentioned the guy who invented paper - Cai Lun. An argument can also be made for the Egyptians, but I don’t recall any cards being printed on papyrus.

[steve B]

Looks like the criteria is very skewed towards people who did stuff more recently. That's a bit limiting.
To me …
The certain ones
- Sy Berger
- Jim Beckett
- Jefferson Burdick


And,
Enos Goudey - Most of the 30's sets were from Boston area gum companies, and nearly all of those had some connection to Goudey.

Lionel Carter


The maybes
- David Hall
- Richard McWilliam
- Mike Berkus
- Larry Fritsch


And

Renata Galasso
Michael Aronstein
Michael Schechter
Andrew Peck

Plus maybe a few hundred other people...…..

I don't think athletes belong. Yes, they're important because the hobby is mostly about promotional items they're on, but few had any real involvement besides posing for a photo.

And the no list
- Pierre Omidyar
- Mr Mint
- Don West

They were all involved, although Omidyar probably didn't plan on being involved - just ended up in a decent place.
But It's debatable whether their influence was positive or not.


And the "you must be kidding" list

- Bill Mastro

[h2oya311]

1) Bob Lemke - primary contributor to the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards; custom baseball cards, hobby legend
2) Jefferson Burdick - cataloguer

possibly also Lew Lipset (although there are mixed feelings about his demeanor) and Michael Aronstein (aka TCMA) and Larry Fritsch

And I agree, no athletes should make the list, despite their importance.

[conor912]

Yeah, the term "favorable" is going to vary greatly between individuals in this exercise.

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

1) Bob Lemke - primary contributor to the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards; custom baseball cards, hobby legend
2) Jefferson Burdick - cataloguer

possibly also Lew Lipset (although there are mixed feelings about his demeanor) and Michael Aronstein (aka TCMA) and Larry Fritsch

And I agree, no athletes should make the list, despite their importance.

Bob Lemke...how could I forget to mention him? He was a prince and a tireless contributor to many projects. He was the anti-Mr Mint

[ocjack]

Frank Nagy should be in consideration as well.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by commishbob

Bob Lemke...how could I forget to mention him? He was a prince and a tireless contributor to many projects. He was the anti-Mr Mint

Actually Bob and Mr. Mint did quite a lot of communications. He was not the anti Mr. Mint

Rich

[conor912]

We should make a ballot (poll) and post it. The Net54 Collector's HOF. Inaugural class of 4, then voting every January for 1 inductee.

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by steve B

Looks like the criteria is very skewed towards people who did stuff more recently. That's a bit limiting.
To me …
The certain ones
- Sy Berger
- Jim Beckett
- Jefferson Burdick


And,
Enos Goudey - Most of the 30's sets were from Boston area gum companies, and nearly all of those had some connection to Goudey.

This would be my exact list.

[polakoff]

Some wonderful nominations we hadn't gotten yet, and some that we'd received previously but will give more credence to given their support here. Please keep them coming!

If Leon allows, when we finalize nominations, I will post a link to the poll for voting.

[Bpm0014]

Barry Halper?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by polakoff

Some wonderful nominations we hadn't gotten yet, and some that we'd received previously but will give more credence to given their support here. Please keep them coming!

If Leon allows, when we finalize nominations, I will post a link to the poll for voting.

I agree about nominations and have no issue with any of this.The history of the hobby is an enjoyable subject.
It reminds me of, about 40 yrs ago, when I volunteered at the Houston Zoo reptile department. It was a great department back then (don't know anything about today). One main reason it was great is that the curator of the museum was a herpetologist. Go figure.
To me, The first 3 hobbyists (already mentioned) as shoe ins are Burdick, Berger and Beckett.
And I would vote to make it the Mt. Rushmore of the top 5. (if there were a vote.) That way more can be on it.

ps...I like Conor's idea right above here too.

[polakoff]

I like a HOF idea but, if you could, please wait until after January 7th so as to not take the wind out of the sails of this project!

I agree that the 3 B's are on my list. The other person involved is on the fence about Burdick (we have had many a fight about this) but Berger and Beckett seem to be absolute certainties. I do think Burdick will pull it out, and then the 4th spot is anyone's guess. We'll see!

The plan is to accept nominations through December 3rd. Next Monday there will be a blog post introducing the idea formally to the masses. On December 3rd we will have a culled list of nominees (knowing that, even though there are many nominees, not everyone can make the final list). That final list will be made into a poll with voting open for 4 weeks and closing on December 31st. On January 7th the Mount Rushmore will be formally announced.

Per Leon's blessing above I will post links when applicable in order to direct folks to the voting.

During the voting I also plan on running several blog posts featuring debate and discussion, so if you feel passionately for (or against) a certain nominee, feel free to elaborate, and I will contact you for permission to include it in a post.

Thanks everyone -- keep 'em coming!

[lumberjack]

Candidates for the HOF (although it would be better if somebody just wrote a book about all of this).

John Stommen and Dan Dishley. I remember hobby papers when I was a kid, they were done on the cheap and mailed out in this haphazard fashion. Terrible. Stommen and Dishley changed all that.

There are a lot of pioneers: You have to start with Burdick, the daddy of them all, but there are a number of guys, "Greatest Generation" types, whom most people wouldn't remember, like Buck Barker, Frank Nagy, Wirt Gammon and Elwood Scharf, who were the heart of collecting when it was pretty much underground. They always had time for novice collectors. "Come over," Nagy would say, "Come and look at my junk."

Ernie Harwell, who saved EVERYTHING, and then donated it to a library.

Lew Lipset published a smart newsletter and a reference book. He has most likely forgotten more about cards than the rest of us will ever know.

Goody Goldfadden probably had the longest running retail shop, which should count for plenty, and...

How about Brian Brusokas, the FBI agent who helped clean up the "hobby" in the 21st century.

It would be a good idea to keep out jocks and the shameless self promoters who made a lot of money but didn't add much to the conversation.
lumberjack

[tedzan]

OK, it's unanimous that Jefferson Burdick gets the # 1 spot on whatever mountain we sculpture his image on.

In another category (that of producing trading cards)…. J. Warren Bowman, and his genius behind the Bowman Gum Co. (initially GUM, Inc.), George Moll,
deserve a huge tribute.
They replaced Goudey in 1938 - 1942 as the foremost producer of Sports and Non-Sports cards in the country. And of course, they revived the hobby after
WWII by producing quality cards in 1948 thru 1953.

George Moll operated an Advertising Agency (Abington, Pennsylvania). He employed 12 artists who designed all the Sports & Non-Sports card that Bowman
produced from 1938 to 1955.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[bijoem]

Archive.

Archive must be included in the list.

[polakoff]

I continue to be in awe at the names produced here.

One thing I would note is that I don’t think it has to be — or should be — all founding fathers types. After all, Teddy Roosevelt was “modern” at the time of Mount Rushmore.

And I will tell you that since votes are being sourced from all over, including a brick and mortar shop, there is sure to be at least one name some here would find a disappointment. But in the end the list will be a completely defensible one. The real debate brewing is whether there should be a player or not. That seems to be the flashpoint of discussion both here and elsewhere.

[rainier2004]

Burdick and Wharton seem like no brainers to me, the ultimate pioneers of the hobby amassing piles of cards driven by the simple passion of collecting.

I wouldn't include the sports figures or those whose greatest accomplishments had to do with business like Rosen, Orlando, etc. Someone like Lipset added immensely to the hobby in addition to running auctions and Id consider him much more influential.

I think the answers are based more on if its a hobby or a business. I don't care about TPGs, selling high grade cards or all the other stuff that goes with industry growth. I care about the research and compilation, bringing awareness and opening the doors to knowledge and bringing others into the hobby based on the DNA of collecting. So Im not sure who'd I name the other two but know who I wouldn't.

[Bram99]

Since the original Mt. Rushmore has a "Teddy" on it. I think the baseball card one should as well.

Ted Z!