Not again! This is why I have a problem with PWCC!! Sorry for the rant!

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Ebay is just a venue...both I and PWCC sell on Ebay....for some reason, I truly believe we can have the EXACT same card....same grade....same centering, everything....99 times out of 100, the PWCC card will sell for more.

I understand your statement completely. But to say people would rather spend big money with PWCC cause they’re “well known” and not some other party is as ridiculous as I’ll get out.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

I understand your statement completely. But to say people would rather spend big money with PWCC cause they’re “well known” and not some other party is as ridiculous as I’ll get out.

Everyone knows the PWCC shill bids their higher end auctions and rolls the dice somebody will come along and snag it. If not, they buy the card then consign it to a big name AH and the cycle begins.

All I said was that particularly if you selling an expensive card, people are hesitant to buy off some outfit they are not familiar with. Common sense. While I know eBay is supposedly guaranteed, if I had to send 5,000 to some one with a few feedback and little history I'd be a nervous wreck.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

I understand your statement completely. But to say people would rather spend big money with PWCC cause they’re “well known” and not some other party is as ridiculous as I’ll get out.

Everyone knows the PWCC shill bids their higher end auctions and rolls the dice somebody will come along and snag it. If not, they buy the card then consign it to a big name AH and the cycle begins.

snagging their own consignment can be pretty pricy if they are paying for their own card...eating 800 dollars etc would seem to eat into any future profit when sending it to another AH

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

I understand your statement completely. But to say people would rather spend big money with PWCC cause they’re “well known” and not some other party is as ridiculous as I’ll get out.

Everyone knows the PWCC shill bids their higher end auctions and rolls the dice somebody will come along and snag it. If not, they buy the card then consign it to a big name AH and the cycle begins.

Wait, are you claiming that the owners of PWCC have an organized scheme to place in house bids (a la Mastro) on the material consigned to them? That’s a pretty lofty accusation, dude. I have no doubt consigners are shilling their cards all day (I’ve seen evidence of it), but I’d be surprised that Brent et. al. would take that risk given the relative transparency of eBay bidding. But perhaps I misunderstood you.

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Wait, are you claiming that the owners of PWCC have an organized scheme to place in house bids (a la Mastro) on the material consigned to them? That’s a pretty lofty accusation, dude. I have no doubt consigners are shilling their cards all day (I’ve seen evidence of it), but I’d be surprised that Brent et. al. would take that risk given the relative transparency of eBay bidding. But perhaps I misunderstood you.

So all the bidders who have 90%+ bidding activity with PWCC and have 30-50+ bid retractions in the last 6 months are all consignors?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

So all the bidders who have 90%+ bidding activity with PWCC and have 30-50+ bid retractions in the last 6 months are all consignors?

It’s tough to argue against conspiracy theories, but yes, it’s far more plausible that it’s a consignor doing that, not someone at PWCC. Just consider the math. If there’s a card selling for $50k, and a consignor successfully shills it to $55k, then the consignor’s incremental take is 90% of the $5k, or, $4500. PWCC might net 5% of that amount after their fees, or an incremental $250. The upside of PWCC perpetrating the shilling just isn’t there, unlike Mastro, whose take was probably 20-30% of the final value.

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

It’s tough to argue against conspiracy theories, but yes, it’s far more plausible that it’s a consignor doing that, not someone at PWCC. Just consider the math. If there’s a card selling for $50k, and a consignor successfully shills it to $55k, then the consignor’s incremental take is 90% of the $5k, or, $4500. PWCC might net 5% of that amount after their fees, or an incremental $250. The upside of PWCC perpetrating the shilling just isn’t there, unlike Mastro, whose take was probably 20-30% of the final value.

I’ve seen and other users have posted Auctions from PWCC were the top two or theee bidders are all 90% and 30-40 retractions. Coincidence? Heck, maybe 3 guys all went in on the card so they all decided to bid it up individually. Lol Come on man

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

I’ve seen and other users have posted Auctions from PWCC were the top two or theee bidders are all 90% and 30-40 retractions. Coincidence? Heck, maybe 3 guys all went in on the card so they all decided to bid it up individually. Lol Come on man

Well, shoot, sounds like you have the smoking gun right there. Congrats on cracking the case, Detective Rowbeartow!

[bobbyw8469]

Guys, I appreciate you letting me vent. I have decided to not sell high dollar cards on my own anymore (Anything over, say $300)....It is obvious that PWCC has the monopoly on Ebay baseball card auctions. They get the eyeballs. They get the bids. This will just be SINGLE cards, as I can't justify paying the high percentage commission they charge on sets (20% I believe). Correct me if I am wrong, but it also looks like their rates have gone up. If you can't beat them, join them.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

I’ve seen and other users have posted Auctions from PWCC were the top two or theee bidders are all 90% and 30-40 retractions. Coincidence? Heck, maybe 3 guys all went in on the card so they all decided to bid it up individually. Lol Come on man

I think you are as wrong as can be. And if I were you I would be careful about what you say publicly on this board. You are legally liable for what you (*or anyone for that matter) says on a public forum. Things said on THIS board have been used against the people saying it in court in the past.
IF someone said I shill bid my own auction they very well might get sued (and I have never sued anyone in my life). But if someone makes a statement like you did, I might make them prove it in court or pay a hefty fine and lawyer fees. And my guess is that if Brent wanted to he could sue your butt for what you said. I am no lawyer but that is my thought. That said, I totally agree that there seem to be some shenanigans with the amount of retractions done and the winning bids, sometimes. I think Brent and team are doing better than most to help curb it but there is a lot to still be done. Some of it needs to be on the ebay side.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

I’ve seen and other users have posted Auctions from PWCC were the top two or theee bidders are all 90% and 30-40 retractions. Coincidence? Heck, maybe 3 guys all went in on the card so they all decided to bid it up individually. Lol Come on man

Brent has already been caught engaging in fraud in his auctions and I don't believe there's any question that shill bidding goes on in his auctions. Brent, I'm looking forward to your lawsuit and I'll be taking yours and Betsy's depositions myself if you wish to sue.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Brent has already been caught engaging in fraud in his auctions and I don't believe there's any question that shill bidding goes on in his auctions. Brent, I'm looking forward to your lawsuit and I'll be taking yours and Betsy's depositions myself if you wish to sue.

So you are saying specifically that Brent shilled his own auctions?

[CrackaJackKid]

Originally Posted by calvindog

brent has already been caught engaging in fraud in his auctions and i don't believe there's any question that shill bidding goes on in his auctions. Brent, i'm looking forward to your lawsuit and i'll be taking yours and betsy's depositions myself if you wish to sue.

+1000000000000000000

[bigfish]

[QUOTE=calvindog;1719895]Brent has already been caught engaging in fraud in his auctions and I don't believe there's any question that shill bidding goes on in his auctions. Brent, I'm looking forward to your lawsuit and I'll be taking yours and Betsy's depositions myself if you wish to sue.


Outstanding