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  #61  
Old 12-06-2018, 11:57 PM
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pokerplyr80 pokerplyr80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Eye appeal greatly affects market value. Since 2015, cards with superior eye appeal, highlighted by the PWCC Certified High End brand, have realized prices 65% higher than market value on average. A complete download of all PWCC-HE sales and related statistics is available on PWCC Marketplace website.

The premium paid for cards with superior eye appeal and highlighted by the PWCC-HE designation reveals an investment trend largely in its infancy. As a key investment variable, the eye appeal of a vintage trading card seems destined to have an increasingly significant impact on market value for the foreseeable future. Investors are encouraged to take notice of this topic and invest accordingly.
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
We learned nothing from 2016 prices, it seems. People defended off the charts prices then and will defend off the charts prices now.
These posts appear to be on opposite sides of the issue. Did someone just pay over market value for this card because of the exceptional eye appeal? Or are you saying these are being run up like the 50s and 60s HOF rcs were? I would lean towards the former but have noticed a big jump t206 prices the last year or two.
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  #62  
Old 12-07-2018, 08:59 AM
MVSNYC MVSNYC is offline
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1. It's Cy Young
2. It's T206
3. It's a Portrait Pose
4. It's a stellar example for the grade (I wouldn't think twice if this was in a 5.5 or 6 holder).

I think Cy has actually been undervalued for years...now it's turn to get a light shined on him (like we've previously seen on Cobb, WaJo, Matty). Speaker, Lajoie on deck.

Last edited by MVSNYC; 12-07-2018 at 09:02 AM.
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  #63  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:05 AM
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Snapolit1 Snapolit1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
Yes, it's increased lately, and with more flowery language.


But the number of people who were expecting to put their kids through college on their holdings of 1990 cards was really large. And buying lots of 100 or 500 or more of the "can't miss" rookies was a thing in at least the early 80's.
None of the above were collected by 50 year old + financially set rich men. Not many filthy rich dudes on Wall Street or in Silicon Valley were collecting Beanie Babies or match box cars.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 12-07-2018 at 09:06 AM.
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  #64  
Old 12-07-2018, 10:01 AM
Millerd33 Millerd33 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVSNYC View Post
1. It's Cy Young
2. It's T206
3. It's a Portrait Pose
4. It's a stellar example for the grade (I wouldn't think twice if this was in a 5.5 or 6 holder).

I think Cy has actually been undervalued for years...now it's turn to get a light shined on him (like we've previously seen on Cobb, WaJo, Matty). Speaker, Lajoie on deck.
Lajoie has seen insane price increases. It wasn't long ago that was an 85.00 card as a 1. Now you can't touch one under 200.00.

Speaker saw a small jump a few months back and has really cooled off.
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  #65  
Old 12-07-2018, 10:31 AM
steve B steve B is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
None of the above were collected by 50 year old + financially set rich men. Not many filthy rich dudes on Wall Street or in Silicon Valley were collecting Beanie Babies or match box cars.

The original statement was that it's only been in the "last few" years that cards have been considered and investment.


to me last few is somewhere around 5 years give or take maybe a couple.


Here's a pretty serious article about collectibles as an investment from 1999 sadly behind a paywall.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2647019...n_tab_contents


Grading companies were started mostly to attract the guys with big money. Enough people wanted to collect, wanted quality, but didn't want to spend a lot of valuable time learning how to tell what was great and what was average. PSA got into it around 1990? 91?
So roughly 28 years ago.


From 2012, the toy boat collector in the article had been collecting for 30 years. And it seems wasn't exactly short of cash...
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/04/11/inve...ible-toys.html
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  #66  
Old 12-07-2018, 11:17 AM
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVSNYC View Post
1. It's Cy Young
2. It's T206
3. It's a Portrait Pose
4. It's a stellar example for the grade (I wouldn't think twice if this was in a 5.5 or 6 holder).

I think Cy has actually been undervalued for years...now it's turn to get a light shined on him (like we've previously seen on Cobb, WaJo, Matty). Speaker, Lajoie on deck.
Michael, let me give you some context....

The other night, four (4) very nice looking, mid-grade, common-back, T206 HOF portraits sold for relatively massive amounts. Listed below is the card, its grade, what it sold for, and -- according to VCP -- what the highest that card in that grade has every sold for, at auction (I dont trust all "BIN"s), prior to the other night's auction:

Frank Chance Red, PSA 6, sold for: $1,851- Prior Highest PSA 6 Sale: $1,365 (Memory Lane, 5/6/17)** (a 35.6% increase)
Christy Mathewson, PSA 5, sold for: $6,200- Prior Highest PSA 5 Sale: $3,600 (REA, 5/6/18) (a 72.2% increase)
Walter Johnson, PSA 5, sold for: $7,713- Prior Highest PSA 5 Sale: $3,608 (PWCC, 6/8/16) (a 113% increase)
Cy Young, PSA 5, sold for: $10,010- Prior Highest PSA 5 Sale: $4,000 (PWCC 9/8/15) (a 150% increase)

** Note that the same exact Chance card, in an SGC 6 flip, was sold at a PWCC auction 11/12/17 for $1,007 (an 83.8% increase in 1 year and a cross from SGC to PSA)

I dont know why these four cards, and specifically the Wajo and Young, both of which sold for double their prior record high, went for so much. But these results are not normal. These are not uncommon cards, even with great eye appeal. Perhaps Mr. Deep Pockets did show up to this auction and didn't mind spending $10k for a previously $3500 card. But remember it took at least two bidders to get these cards to where they sold. Also, you would expect that someone (Mr. Deep Pockets), who was in a position to (over)spend $10k on a card, would be wise enough to know that $10k was a wee-bit steep compared to all prior sales going back to 2008 (and even if they don't have VCP, they can go on ebay, or PSA, or google it -- the info is out there).

Look, maybe there are plausible, innocent, or market-based explanations for this. Indeed, I sure hope so. Or maybe there was foul play. All i can tell you is keep your eyes wide open because it is VERY noteworthy when relatively common cards sell for 100%+ all prior sales.

Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 12-07-2018 at 11:50 AM.
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  #67  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:05 PM
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ullmandds ullmandds is offline
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It is also interesting to note that numerous opinions on here come from people who own/are affiliated with AH’s or who derive income from the hobby think this is all normal and natural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Michael, let me give you some context....

The other night, four (4) very nice looking, mid-grade, common-back, T206 HOF portraits sold for relatively massive amounts. Listed below is the card, its grade, what it sold for, and -- according to VCP -- what the highest that card in that grade has every sold for, at auction (I dont trust all "BIN"s), prior to the other night's auction:

Frank Chance Red, PSA 6, sold for: $1,851- Prior Highest PSA 6 Sale: $1,365 (Memory Lane, 5/6/17)** (a 35.6% increase)
Christy Mathewson, PSA 5, sold for: $6,200- Prior Highest PSA 5 Sale: $3,600 (REA, 5/6/18) (a 72.2% increase)
Walter Johnson, PSA 5, sold for: $7,713- Prior Highest PSA 5 Sale: $3,608 (PWCC, 6/8/16) (a 113% increase)
Cy Young, PSA 5, sold for: $10,010- Prior Highest PSA 5 Sale: $4,000 (PWCC 9/8/15) (a 150% increase)

** Note that the same exact Chance card, in an SGC 6 flip, was sold at a PWCC auction 11/12/17 for $1,007 (an 83.8% increase in 1 year and a cross from SGC to PSA)

I dont know why these four cards, and specifically the Wajo and Young, both of which sold for double their prior record high, went for so much. But these results are not normal. These are not uncommon cards, even with great eye appeal. Perhaps Mr. Deep Pockets did show up to this auction and didn't mind spending $10k for a previously $3500 card. But remember it took at least two bidders to get these cards to where they sold. Also, you would expect that someone (Mr. Deep Pockets), who was in a position to (over)spend $10k on a card, would be wise enough to know that $10k was a wee-bit steep compared to all prior sales going back to 2008 (and even if they don't have VCP, they can go on ebay, or PSA, or google it -- the info is out there).

Look, maybe there are plausible, innocent, or market-based explanations for this. Indeed, I sure hope so. Or maybe there was foul play. All i can tell you is keep your eyes wide open because it is VERY noteworthy when relatively common cards sell for 100%+ all prior sales.

Last edited by ullmandds; 12-07-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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  #68  
Old 12-07-2018, 01:59 PM
Throttlesteer Throttlesteer is offline
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It's possible someone purposely ran it up. But, someone still has to put the final bid in, right? If it's not worth the $10k, then don't put in the bid. We've seen some blatant cases of shilling over the years, but I'm not convinced that all of these record prices are the work of a nefarious person shilling.
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  #69  
Old 12-07-2018, 02:08 PM
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You must derive income from the hobby to have that point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttlesteer View Post
It's possible someone purposely ran it up. But, someone still has to put the final bid in, right? If it's not worth the $10k, then don't put in the bid. We've seen some blatant cases of shilling over the years, but I'm not convinced that all of these record prices are the work of a nefarious person shilling.
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  #70  
Old 12-07-2018, 02:15 PM
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Maybe someone is buying X-mas gifts.
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