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  #21  
Old 12-03-2018, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjulmag View Post
Are you referring to the 1865 Atlantics CdV?
Yes.
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2018, 03:00 PM
benjulmag benjulmag is online now
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The item did not meet the reserve when it last appeared in the Heritage auction. My guess is the reason is that the leap of faith required to believe the photo was real was too great.

I do not question it is an albumen photo. What I do question is how one can be so sure it is a period albumen photo. I know someone who examined it before it was slabbed. He told me that because the photo was not completely adhered to the mount he was able to inspect a portion of the verso, which appeared to be unsoiled and on paper that looked to be modern and perfectly white in color. Adding to this that the CdV has no known provenance, appears to clearly have been remounted, and shows a clear degradation in resolution from the other known copy, I am surprised you express the confidence you do that the photo is genuine.
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2018, 06:19 PM
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We may or may not be talking about the same CDV. I don't know, and am too lazy to look into it.

The one I was thinking of was supposedly remounted from a stolen stereoview, and the remounting was to hide that it was stolen. At least, that's the story someone told me.

But, either way, I'm too busy with work to get in a debate on it, and won't refute anything you say about the HA photo.

Last edited by drcy; 12-03-2018 at 07:11 PM.
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  #24  
Old 12-03-2018, 06:45 PM
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So are you implying that you feel it could be a faked albumen photo? I have asked quite a few experienced hobbyists and no one has said they have seen one yet. There is a reason I am asking these questions and it has to do with a card I am getting graded.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benjulmag View Post
The item did not meet the reserve when it last appeared in the Heritage auction. My guess is the reason is that the leap of faith required to believe the photo was real was too great.

I do not question it is an albumen photo. What I do question is how one can be so sure it is a period albumen photo. I know someone who examined it before it was slabbed. He told me that because the photo was not completely adhered to the mount he was able to inspect a portion of the verso, which appeared to be unsoiled and on paper that looked to be modern and perfectly white in color. Adding to this that the CdV has no known provenance, appears to clearly have been remounted, and shows a clear degradation in resolution from the other known copy, I am surprised you express the confidence you do that the photo is genuine.
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  #25  
Old 12-03-2018, 07:02 PM
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It is possible and not rare for there to be a vintage 1800s albumen with an earlier image. Not rare with famous subjects such as Abe Lincoln and Albert E. Lee. They're usually easily identified as later (or period) by the style of the mount. For an example, below is an 1890s cabinet of Lincoln in 1864. Not hard to identify because the dates are in the text.


Last edited by drcy; 12-03-2018 at 07:09 PM.
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  #26  
Old 12-03-2018, 07:07 PM
sphere and ash sphere and ash is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
So are you implying that you feel it could be a faked albumen photo? I have asked quite a few experienced hobbyists and no one has said they have seen one yet. There is a reason I am asking these questions and it has to do with a card I am getting graded.
There is no question that modern albumen prints can be made. You can see photographers working in albumen having a back-and-forth in the following link:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...recipes.12822/

Whether someone could make a modern albumen print that is indistinguishable from a nineteenth century albumen print is another question. Nineteenth century papers tend to be very thin, and I think it would be hard to find modern papers that are that thin. Hard to find—not impossible.
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  #27  
Old 12-03-2018, 07:23 PM
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Google says you need exceptionally pure paper to make albumen or the chemicals will react horribly with any impurities and it will ruin the print. The only way for the process to work is for the paper to be modern. Old paper has all kinds of impurities built up and old photo paper still in the original box doesn't exist as far as I can see, and even if it did, I would think the chemicals would be degraded by now and it would make it unusable.

That's why it's probably extremely hard to make modern fakes look old...the paper has to be modern and that's easy to tell.

An easy way to tell for sure would be to get the paper carbon dated, IMO. The carbon dating process is now a lot more precise and a lot cheaper than before. The last time I checked it was like $500-600 for 1 sample.
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  #28  
Old 12-03-2018, 07:38 PM
sphere and ash sphere and ash is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SetBuilder View Post
Google says you need exceptionally pure paper to make albumen or the chemicals will react horribly with any impurities and it will ruin the print. The only way for the process to work is for the paper to be modern. Old paper has all kinds of impurities built up and old photo paper still in the original box doesn't exist as far as I can see, and even if it did, I would think the chemicals would be degraded by now and it would make it unusable.

That's why it's probably extremely hard to make modern fakes look old...the paper has to be modern and that's easy to tell.

An easy way to tell for sure would be to get the paper carbon dated, IMO. The carbon dating process is now a lot more precise and a lot cheaper than before. The last time I checked it was like $500-600 for 1 sample.
I’ve printed in salt and albumen, and it’s not at all clear to me what “exceptionally pure paper” is. I don’t think it’s true that the process requires a modern paper.
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  #29  
Old 12-03-2018, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sphere and ash View Post
I’ve printed in salt and albumen, and it’s not at all clear to me what “exceptionally pure paper” is. I don’t think it’s true that the process requires a modern paper.
I don't know...you can Google it. It says it in every article I've read...that you need pure, high quality paper, free of impurities.
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  #30  
Old 12-03-2018, 07:44 PM
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I know a lot of art photographers who use old processes. They aren't making forgeries or attempting to make photos that someone would be fooled into thinking was old.

A funny thing was I was talking with a well-known print (ink) artist who does digital collages. I was surprised at how little he knew about digital printing itself-- how to identify laser versus inkjet printing under the microscope, halftone reproductions, blacklight and paper, etc. He just bought a big printer and used it. I also met a photographer from Paris who was having an exhibition, and she said she sent her photos in to be developed by a company. She likely wasn't up to date on a lot of stuff collectors know. So an expert can know more about the physicality of the artwork than the artist him or herself.

Last edited by drcy; 12-03-2018 at 07:56 PM.
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