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  #21  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:11 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default Allie Reynolds

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Originally Posted by Bram99 View Post
What about Allie Reynolds. Sain’s teammate for a stretch with Yankees.

Sain was above average as a pitcher but not great.

Though I like the thought that Sain was a great pitching coach, I think it’s unlikely he would be inducted as a pitching coach.

Allie Reynolds should be next up if any additional pitcher from that golden era (my favorite era) gets in. Allie was a winner and did anything needed to win championships.

Reynolds started and relieved in the same seasons and was one of the best in the league as a starter and a reliever within the same year, and the same World Series several times.

Sain was very good. Allie was great. Super chief!

Hi Tony

I second your comments regarding Allie Reynolds. He was a great starting Pitcher....and, Casey Stengel would also bring him in as a Relief pitcher.

Reynolds is 7 - 2 (W-L) in World Series play.... with 4 Saves.


I still remember the 1951 season when Allie pitched 2 no-hitters. After the 2nd no-hitter, Yankees broadcaster Mel Allen began calling Allie the “ Super Chief " .





TED Z

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  #22  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:38 AM
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oldjudge oldjudge is offline
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"I saw him Pitch (1947-1955) and I followed his Coaching career (1961-1975)…. and unless you did too, you're not knowledgeable enough to form an opinion."

Then why ask the question, Ted? It's already the Hall of Really Good. Do you want to make it the Hall of Pretty Good?
And in answer to your question about 1961, Ford won 25 games because he had his most starts ever(Casey Stengel was gone and Ralph Houk let Ford pitch every fourth day and the season went from 154 to 162 games), had a great run producing team, and had two expansion clubs join the AL. His ERA was the highest of his career.

Last edited by oldjudge; 12-07-2018 at 02:15 PM.
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  #23  
Old 12-07-2018, 07:31 AM
Bram99 Bram99 is offline
Tony S.
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Default Ok Ted Z...

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Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Tony

I second your comments regarding Allie Reynolds. He was a great starting Pitcher....and, Casey Stengel would also bring him in as a Relief pitcher.

Reynolds is 7 - 2 (W-L) in World Series play.... with 4 Saves.


I still remember the 1951 season when Allie pitched 2 no-hitters. After the 2nd no-hitter, Yankees broadcaster Mel Allen began calling Allie the “ Super Chief " .





TED Z

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I will buy those two cards pictured!
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  #24  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:05 AM
packs packs is offline
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The "I saw him play" argument only gets you so far sometimes. None of us saw Babe Ruth play but I don't think you had to for you to know the player he was.
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  #25  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:29 AM
bbcard1 bbcard1 is offline
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I am on a facebook group where we argue about Hall of Famers...in fact, that's all the group is about. There are a handful of people from our national game...Sain, Buck O'Neil, Lefty O'Doul...who made significant contributions but do not fit neatly into the established pigeonholes of the Hall of Fame. They have significant contributions in certain areas, but enough to warrant inclusion as a player. Their work as an ambassador, coach, etc. is just not something that has been considered...not to say that it shouldn't be.
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  #26  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:38 AM
stlcardsfan stlcardsfan is offline
D.an Jackso.n
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114 wins by age 25? That's incredible! Wonder if anyone has exceeded that.
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  #27  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:58 PM
Bram99 Bram99 is offline
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Default Wins by 25

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114 wins by age 25? That's incredible! Wonder if anyone has exceeded that.
Well Bob Feller did (137) and he also had two years in military service as well by then. But he is in the HOF
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  #28  
Old 12-07-2018, 01:52 PM
ejharrington ejharrington is offline
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Originally Posted by bbcard1 View Post
I am on a facebook group where we argue about Hall of Famers...in fact, that's all the group is about. There are a handful of people from our national game...Sain, Buck O'Neil, Lefty O'Doul...who made significant contributions but do not fit neatly into the established pigeonholes of the Hall of Fame. They have significant contributions in certain areas, but enough to warrant inclusion as a player. Their work as an ambassador, coach, etc. is just not something that has been considered...not to say that it shouldn't be.
What's the Facebook Group? I love debating this issue.
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  #29  
Old 12-07-2018, 02:03 PM
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clydepepper clydepepper is offline
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The idea of inducting a pitching coach is intriguing, no doubt.

Assistant Coaches are not given their due in any sport - the awards always go to the Managers and Head Coaches.

There have been some noteworthy hitting coaches as well.

Davey Lopes maybe the best 'specialty' coach of All-Time - but he'll never make it.

Ron Washington is making some headway in Atlanta as a specialist in infield defense.

Scouts are given plenty of legendary story-lines of 'landing the big one', but get stiffed as well.

Johnny Sain, as Mr. Z has recounted, is one of the few pitching coaches who 'created' success several times in several different cities and that sets him apart from others making the same efforts.

All that being said, I think we're railing at windmills with this discussion.
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2018, 02:31 PM
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trdcrdkid trdcrdkid is offline
David Kathman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram99 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlcardsfan View Post
114 wins by age 25? That's incredible! Wonder if anyone has exceeded that.
Well Bob Feller did (137) and he also had two years in military service as well by then. But he is in the HOF
Matty had 127 wins by his 25th birthday (August 12, 1905) and 150 wins through the end of his age-25 season (1906). Walter Johnson had 115 wins by his 25th birthday (November 6, 1912) and 151 wins through the end of his age-25 season (1913). McLain's 114 wins were through the end of his age-25 season (1969); by his 25th birthday, he "only" had 90 wins. The five pitchers to get 100 wins by their 25th birthday were Matty, WaJo, Feller (107), Smoky Joe Wood (102), and Doc Gooden (100). Three HOFers and two flameouts.

https://www.sporcle.com/games/sweett...-before-age-25

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...athech01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ohnswa01.shtml
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