Lections on eBay - Chance Not Only Known Example

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Posted By: canjond

Although I do not really want to step on any toes here, the Frank Chance Lections up for auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5208154758 that is being sold as the "ONLY KNOWN EXAMPLE" is not the only known example. A few months back, I discovered a few Lections and in the collection was another Chance. At that time, I informed the seller of this auction that I had another Chance and provided him with scans of this card. Now, I'm not trying to accuse anyone of misleading advertising - for all I know the seller could have forgotten that I do have a Chance. (I have purchased from this seller before and he was very good to deal with). That being said, since board members are bidding on this card, and I did inform the seller months ago that there is another Chance out there, I think it's only fair to post here. If anyone wants a scan of the other Chance, please email me.

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Posted By: leon

And this is what I meant about this being somewhat of an "advisory" board. This Chance is certainly scarce and certainly not as advertised....regards

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Posted By: BCDaniels

Just want to see if it is nicer~

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Posted By: canjond

Scans provided. I would think this one might be the NICEST Lection that exists. I was lucky enough to get some real quality examples. As you can see, no creasing, etc. Unfortunately the worst condition one I got was the Ruth which is bad to say the least.

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Posted By: BCDaniels

that is nice~

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Posted By: Paul

Why is Chance listed with the White Sox? My references say he managed the Red Sox in 1923 after several years out of the majors. I've found no mention of Chance ever having any affiliation with the White Sox.

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Posted By: Mike P.

The one on ebay is red while yours is green. What significance does that add? Maybe he is aware of yours but knows his is a different color thus he is considering his the only RED example...maybe?

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

I know there are even more Lections out there as well. I was talking to Terry Knouse about a year ago, and he told me he had a large stack of them, and somebody had stolen them out of his case a few months earlier. I don't know which players he had, but he was pretty upset about it.

With all the cool stuff Terry has in his cases, it was wierd the thief would choose to steal Lections cards, oh well.
-Rhett

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Posted By: DJ

From what I understand from talking to people, there are perhaps 40-50* known examples in existence. They came in orange and green and always in rather cruddy condition. I believe that this Chance up for auction now was once in an Old Judge auction several years back. There was 'a find' in the late nineties and the origins of these cards still remain a mystery.

According to 'Total Baseball' (among other sources), Chance was manager of the Red Sox in 1923, but according to several other sources, including an article from 1924 when he died, he 'was' the manager of the White Sox.

Frank Chance, manager of the Chicago White Sox, died here [last] night after a long illness. For several months Chance had been recuperating in Southern California from a breakdown suffered in Chicago last spring. He was at his apartment here [last] night when another sudden attack caused his removal to Good Samaritan Hospital, where he died."

DJ

* even though some believe that number may be around 100. I'm really not sure.

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Posted By: canjond

Maybe I can shed some light onto the origins of the Lections. The person whom I acquired them from got them directly from his father who had collected them as a kid. They were distributed in the Albany area. At that time period, many of the local politicians would campaign via cards entilted "Elections". (I have scans of these, too). The kids at this time would get the Election cards, and play a game with it. A local company out of Albany (from what I've been told) made the "Lections" for the kids - while the adults got Elections, children got Lections...

As for the game, this is how it went - you would flip the Lection against the wall. If it stood upright against it - you got a point. The reason I know this is some of the Lections I saw (and subsequently purchased) had remnants of scores written on the back - prizes for winning appeared to be the card, itself. For example, one card has written on the back - "Winner - Saturday December 9th, 1931" - (There are also lines drawn to create boxes for the flip scores.)

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Posted By: DJ

Very interesting. Upon my travels, I have passed many Albany vendors and stores and once questioned why a Frisch I once owned was hole punched. I thought as many that there was some truth that it was a sort of a 'redemption'. I never took it to be part of a game (and what a fun game it seems!) and I'm wondering what the 'Elections' cards look like and what kind of images house the front? Are they rare? Any history on those particular cards?

Thanks Frank.

DJ

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Posted By: Eric

Hello "canjond" and others,

I've collected Lections for several years, and always been attracted to this issues obscurity and unknown background. A few years ago I created a post on this board asking others for their insight on the issue. I've also picked the brains of several highly knowledgeable collectors, for their thoughts. Between the posts and personal conversations, this is what I've gathered:

~There are roughly 75-125* examples currently known. This number is tough to determine, but based on the two initial finds, and other suggested finds, this number should be fairly accurate in terms of publicly announced finds and discolures.
~The two reported "finds" were discovered in the late nineties, both by the same family that resides in upstate New York (Albany, possible Schenectady).
~Two color schemes have been seen: green and orange.
~Although I've never gotten a "this came straight from the horses mouth", I've heard from several sources that the cards were produced and given away at a fair or carnival on a one time basis**.
~The theory of them being a punch card has been suggested, but I've only seen one card with "redemption-like" holes in it, so I find it highly unlikely.

The newly suggested information that canjond raises is really interesting. I've never heard of "Elections" cards, but the reasoning sounds very feasible. I've also never heard about the kids game story before, which again, could very well be true. Looking at the backside of the two Lections I own, there are no pencil markings (or erase marks). If anyone has more information on the "Elections" cards, including scans..I'd be very interested in hearing from you. I've always held hope that more than 10 player cards were made, and have long sought the real story behind their orignals. Personally, I think more of these will be found somewhere down the road. Thanks,

Eric



*125 is thought to be on the high side, around 100 is probably more accurate. The problem with establishing the number of known copies is due to some stories of people making other finds of Lections cards, outside of the original two that were reported in the late 90's, by one family in New York.

**This statement would seem to coincide with the Elections story, as a convention or polical fair might have been the forum.

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Posted By: canjond

First - sorry for the "canjond" confusion as Net54 logs in that way for me. Canjond= me (Jon Canfield). As for additional information... here are the scans of the "Elections" The backs on 1/2 of these are blank - the other half has election information such as vote row A. Interesting thing may be that the Mooney Election is punched just as some of the other Lections are. From what I was told, this is where the baseball version of the cards came from - a spin off for kids. Although this is speculative again, the size and stock of the Election and Lections are virtually the same. Furthermore, the punching of the cards seems to be consistent... Any opinions / comments?

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Posted By: leon

It's a mystery to me but the few possibilities sound.. well....possible.....I've had this one for a while....

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

those punch holes were how many BEERS that they drank that night and it was a way to monitor the players and crooks(politicians)drunkness.