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  #21  
Old 02-20-2018, 02:28 PM
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Here's another EPDG Owen with the spot on his sleeve.

EPDG-3.jpg

This one puts the number of EPDG subjects with the spot at 3 out 5
and Scott has a new PD150 with the spot up on ebay now that puts
the number of PD150's with the spot at 14
https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Owen-F...4AAOSwZrhah06B

but I still haven't found any PD350's or any other 350 backs with this
spot as a matter of fact I still haven't found any of the variations that
are found on the 150 subjects on any 350 backs.

There have been discussions before about the EPDG and Old Mill
printing timeline for the 150 series and from the research I've
done I think they might have been done in this order


150 series with EPDG backs
150 series with PD350 backs
150 series with Old Mill backs
350 series with PD350 backs
350 series with EPDG backs
350 series with Old Mill backs
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2018, 06:22 PM
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Just picked up the one on the left from Scott (thanks Scott).

Owens Group Back.jpg
Owens Group.jpg
Owens Group 1200dpi.jpg
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  #23  
Old 08-31-2018, 09:38 AM
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I found some more evidence that Group 1 (150/350) subjects might
have been printed with EPDG before any 350 backs were printed and the Old mills were only printed during the 350 series printing.

There are several L.Tannehills that have this red mark in the upper
left corner.
Tannehill SC350-25 - Copy.jpg

I haven't found or heard of any that are on a 150 back
but they are found on

PD350
Tannehill Red Mark PD350.jpg

SC350/25
Tannehill SC350-25.jpg

SC350/30
Tannehill Red Mark SC350-30.jpg

and I recently came across this Old Mill with the red mark
Tannehill Red Mark Old Mill.jpg

1 out of the 4 Old mills I found have it but 0 of the 12 EPDG's had it.

I think this could be important information to the timeline of the
back printing of print group 1 as it has been a common theory
that the EPDG and Old Mills were printed around the same time
during the 350 series printing.
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  #24  
Old 08-31-2018, 11:55 AM
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Pat,

As always, great, fascinating work !!!

I just checked. I have a L. Tannehill with EPDG. Very unfortunately, it is miss cut to top (and has wear), so there is not enough border to see if there is a red mark or not....

I do agree with your theory that EPDGs were printed earlier.

Look forward to future findings, Scott
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  #25  
Old 08-31-2018, 12:16 PM
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Good stuff Pat! Here's another Tannehill OM.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg s-l1600 (1).jpg (75.9 KB, 225 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600 (2).jpg (76.3 KB, 219 views)
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  #26  
Old 08-31-2018, 12:53 PM
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I think when you take all the info into consideration, the only conclusion that makes sense is for EPDG to be either the first of the "350" backs, or the last of the 150s.

The Elite 11 guys shed a lot of light on it. Take Tom Jones for example. It seems that he was printed for the entire EPDG print run (because he is as plentiful as any 150-350 Series pose with EPDG back), but then he was pulled early in the P350 print run. The logical conclusion there is that either the EPDG print run was finished before the P350 print run started, or at least part of the EPDG print run had be run to completion.

Another bit of evidence is that as of now, I have never seen a 150-350 Series EPDG with either "dark ink" or the "washed out" look that some P350, Sov350, SC350, and OMs have.

I have no doubt EPDGs were printed before any other 350 backs.

My theory on 150-350 Old Mills is that they were printed in at least two different runs. There are some poses that can only be found with a clear, precisely registered image (like the 150s), and others that can only be found with a washed out image (like some 350s). This leads me to believe that the two sets of poses were printed at different times. Although, it could just be one long print run where the first set of sheets came out looking crisp like the 150s, and the quality deteriorated as they ran off the subsequent sheets.

In the examples below, Schlei has "dark ink" and Overall is "washed out". You won't find any EPDG that has either characteristic.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Schlei-catching-Old-Mill-PSA-1.5.jpg (79.0 KB, 216 views)
File Type: jpg Overall-portrait-Old-Mill-PSA-3.5.jpg (79.5 KB, 216 views)
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  #27  
Old 08-31-2018, 03:24 PM
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Excuse me as I have disagree with you guys. Empirical evidence indicates that PIEDMONT 350 printing preceded EPDG printing regarding the Elite 11 subjects.

As I have noted several instances in other threads: To date, the sole source of Elite 11 cards has been from the Atlanta, Georgia area. At least 4 original T206
collections from that area have provided Elite 11 cards. I have personally acquired 2 groups of Elite 11 cards from sources in Atlanta.
And, to date, no other location has been the source of these rare cards.

Furthermore, the well known Russell Tobacco card collection (on display at Univ. of Georgia library) is the first known source of the Elite 11 cards. Plus......
the Joe Doyle N Y Nat'l card.





The Joe Doyle N Y Nat'l card exists ONLY with the PIEDMONT 350 back. In fact several of the known 9 examples of this card have been found in original
collections emanating from Georgia.

Given that the fact that Russell's collection did not have a single EPDG version of the Elite 11 subjects, I cannot accept your argument that EPDG printing
preceded the PIEDMONT 350 print run.



TED Z

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  #28  
Old 08-31-2018, 08:18 PM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is offline
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keep up the good work pat and luke. great stuff.
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  #29  
Old 09-01-2018, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Excuse me as I have disagree with you guys. Empirical evidence indicates that PIEDMONT 350 printing preceded EPDG printing regarding the Elite 11 subjects.

As I have noted several instances in other threads: To date, the sole source of Elite 11 cards has been from the Atlanta, Georgia area. At least 4 original T206
collections from that area have provided Elite 11 cards. I have personally acquired 2 groups of Elite 11 cards from sources in Atlanta.
And, to date, no other location has been the source of these rare cards.

Furthermore, the well known Russell Tobacco card collection (on display at Univ. of Georgia library) is the first known source of the Elite 11 cards. Plus......
the Joe Doyle N Y Nat'l card.





The Joe Doyle N Y Nat'l card exists ONLY with the PIEDMONT 350 back. In fact several of the known 9 examples of this card have been found in original
collections emanating from Georgia.

Given that the fact that Russell's collection did not have a single EPDG version of the Elite 11 subjects, I cannot accept your argument that EPDG printing
preceded the PIEDMONT 350 print run.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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That's fine Ted you're entitled to your opinion but I think you're confused
on what I'm proposing in this thread that print group 1 subjects
might have been printed with EPDG backs before they were printed with
PD350 backs. Doyle is a print group 3 subject and I certainly think
he was printed with a PD350 back before he was printed with an EPDG back.
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  #30  
Old 09-01-2018, 11:54 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
That's fine Ted you're entitled to your opinion but I think you're confused
on what I'm proposing in this thread that print group 1 subjects
might have been printed with EPDG backs before they were printed with
PD350 backs. Doyle is a print group 3 subject and I certainly think
he was printed with a PD350 back before he was printed with an EPDG back.

Pat

With all due respect......we have discussed this before in another thread. The Joe Doyle card was initially printed early in the 350-only Series print run.
The Joe Doyle N Y Nat'l card in Senator Russell's T206 collection in Georgia proves this fact. His collection does not have a corrected Joe Doyle card.

Subsequently, when ALC printed the SOVEREIGN 350 (apple green) cards, Joe Doyle was included in this group of 66 cards. However, he retired during
that period and was not continued into the 350-460 Series.

T206resource is mis-leading the hobby by stating Joe Doyle was printed in "print group 3".

But, if you choose to believe that, that's your prerogative. It's obvious to me that I cannot convince you of this matter.

Take care,


TED Z

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