Does this one really exist?

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Posted By: tbob

Has anyone ever seen the supposed 3rd variation of the Sweet Caporal Mullin pin, the one with large letters and a black cap? I have talked to a couple of other collectors of this set and no one has ever seen it. There is a black cap Mullen in small letters and a white cap Mullin with large letters, but that's it. I sure would like to see a scan of it if it does truly exist.
Bob

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Posted By: Scott Mosley

Hi Tbob...

I don't know if theres too many other collectors out there trying to complete P-2s like we are but I know that you and I have emailed about this variation in the past.

I'm actually down to two pins left to complete the set (thanks to a fellow collector who lurks here) and one of them is the Mullin variation that you've mentioned.

I'd love to see a scan of it as well if ones out there just so I know what I'm looking for!

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Posted By: Gilbert Porter

I purchased a "complete" set of the p2 pins at a Sportscards Plus auction a few years go that claimed to have all 205 pins, but when it arrived it only had 204 pins and was missing the Mullen pin that you mention. When I mentioned the missing pin to them, they told me that they did not know what happened to the pin and would not be able to locate a replacement for me. They offered to pay me the book value instead (which is, of course, an inconsequential sum) - I never accepted their offer of payment, and this has gone unresolved. But after several years of non-stop looking I have never been able to locate this pin to complete my set.

Until your posting, I simply assumed that I was incompetent at locating this pin.

Does Lemke have a view on this? He must have had a basis for listing the pin in the first place. And if it is as rare as you suggest, why does the book value not reflect the scarcity?

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Posted By: Scott Mosley

Thanks for the information regarding the set you purchased. I'm glad to know that Tbob and myself aren't the only collectors wondering about the existence of this variation.

I would definately like to hear from Mr. Lemke if he can provide a scan of this elusive pin or know how it came to be added to the big book. I believe that this is the only pin which appears in todays standard catalog which was not accounted for in Lew Lipsets encyclopedia of baseball cards.

As far as the prices in the guide, I'm afraid there are several pins whose prices don't accurately reflect how scarce they seem to be. My thought is that the P-2 prices probably don't get updated as frequently and get less attention then card sets from the same era.

Scott

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Posted By: Bob Lemke

the Mullen dark cap/large letters was not added to the book until the 9th edition (2000-dated), it would (usually) indicate a discovery specimen came to my attention through either a photocopy or scan. That "system" is not infallible, however, and I don't have the supporting evidence at hand.

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Posted By: Scott Mosley

I was hoping that you might catch this thread since you come around Network 54 every so often...

If its just a case of not having had a chance to look and, if its not too much trouble, could you check up on this one to see if you still have the evidence around which caused you to add this variation?

Its definately driving a couple of us P-2 collectors crazy trying to find an example of this pin.

It would be much appreciated!

Regards,

Scott Mosley

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Posted By: Bob Lemke

When I didn't find the piece in our P2 or Sweet Cap photo files, I concluded it was either not saved or is buried in the heaps of unfield photos that have been accumulating while other projects take priority.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Scott, do you do drugs?

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Posted By: Scott Mosley

Dan,

Maybe a Briggs Lozenge now and then but nothing stronger than that.

I promise!

Scott

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Posted By: Gilbert Porter

How does one go about deciding whether to "undeclare" an item's existence. Is there a way to put in process a determination as to whether an item does or does not exist? At least with people we can declare them non-existent after a seven year's absence.

Or are we left with an open question?

On the other hand, if someone would like to prove that the pin does exist, by selling it to me . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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Posted By: tbob

"Found" another non-existent card, the 1910 Obak Bealls. There is no such animal. If you look in the SCD you'll see a 1909 Bealls which DOES exist (and I won one) but also a 1910 Bealls, which DOESN'T. I guess the Byrd card can drop the card "29.5" designation and become card number 30 and by dropping the non-existent Bealls, the set is once again complete at 175 cards.
Now if we can disprove the Mullins large letter black hat pin and the Blue "C" on Davis' hat in the T207, I'll rest in peace.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I actually have owned a Blue C T207 Davis. It came in a huge lot of T207's I won in a Mastro auction that I split up and sold on eBay (there were a bunch of Napoleon backs - I remember you won a few of those and I took a couple back b/c they were trimmed). Anyway, I cannot remember who I sold the Blue C Davis to, but I only got around $30 or so out of it!

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Posted By: Elliot

The blue C Davis exists, and is owned by a board member. Hopefully he will post a scan of it.