Poll: response to recent PWCC revelations

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I know right?

Funny how the Blow out detectives haven't found any cards linked to him

edited maybe one or two bought, none sold I believe

If you can show that Probstein has done the same crap, then show us. I know they have a shady history too, but not to this extent, to my knowledge, so far.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

If you can show that Probstein has done the same crap, then show us. I know they have a shady history too, but not to this extent, to my knowledge, so far.

I know for fact the same names that you see listed on Blowout send cards to both.

People are fooling themselves if they think that somehow they insulate themselves by avoiding PWCC.

One of the names that was listed a month or so back runs his own auctions. I was outed as someone who had made a comment about winning a card from him.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I know for fact the same names that you see listed on Blowout send cards to both.

People are fooling themselves if they think that somehow they insulate themselves by avoiding PWCC.

One of the names that was listed a month or so back runs his own auctions. I was outed as someone who had made a comment about winning a card from him.

I can see the mountain of evidence against PWCC. You are MORE than welcome to show me reoccurring and consistent evidence from any other seller and/or consignor. I'll be waiting.

[Republicaninmass]

hmm nice t206 EPDG back bought at

Heritage

yet sold via PWCC

I wonder who paid that invoice and where it was shipped?




They must be utilizing PWCC because he gets more eyeballs not because

A. He used PWCC_auctions to bid up his own account

B. Advises people what to bid on

[HRBAKER]

Some folks smell test requires more "aroma" than others.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I can see the mountain of evidence against PWCC. You are MORE than welcome to show me reoccurring and consistent evidence from any other seller and/or consignor. I'll be waiting.

The reason Probstein isn't being mentioned is because PWCC stole so much of their business.

In the top 25 I pointed too only 2 are Probstein. Rewind the clock five or six years ago and he had as much if not more of the high end of the market than PWCC did.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

The reason Probstein isn't being mentioned is because PWCC stole so much of their business.

In the top 25 I pointed too only 2 are Probstein. Rewind the clock five or six years ago and he had as much if not more of the high end of the market than PWCC did.

If you can show evidence that Probstein is doing or has done the same as PWCC, be my guest. It's not a hard concept. The only "side" I'm on is the side of logic and reason, so I'm all ears.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I know for fact the same names that you see listed on Blowout send cards to both.

People are fooling themselves if they think that somehow they insulate themselves by avoiding PWCC.

One of the names that was listed a month or so back runs his own auctions. I was outed as someone who had made a comment about winning a card from him.

Dave do you think Gary does or are you referring to the modern guys whose names were mentioned?

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dave do you think Gary does or are you referring to the modern guys whose names were mentioned?

Modern

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Modern

All the stuff going on on that side of the hobby has been a revelation to me. I am not in the least bit surprised, I just didn't know the names or the extent of it.

[sportscardtheory]

It's almost as though some people can't see that it's not ONLY about altered cards. It's also about how a business REACTS to these findings. And PWCC, PSA and BGS' responses and lack thereof speak volumes to their complicity and that severely damages their credibility in the areas of the hobby in which they reside. It's about trust, and I no longer trust PWCC, PSA or BGS in any way. Pointing out other instances of such malfeasance among the hobby doesn't CHANGE that, so you're confused if you think it does. Pointing out some stuff about Probstein doesn't make THIS go away, sorry.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

It's almost as though some people can't see that it's not ONLY about altered cards. It's also about how a business REACTS to these findings. And PWCC, PSA and BGS' responses and lack thereof speak volumes to their complicity and that severely damages their credibility in the areas of business in which they reside. It's about trust, and I no longer trust PWCC, PSA or BGS in any way. Pointing out other instances of such malfeasance among the hobby doesn't CHANGE that, so you're confused if you think it does. Pointing out some stuff about Probstein doesn't make THIS go away, sorry.

It isn't about it going away.

I am just laughing at all of the self righteous people that think they are somehow noble for not bidding in PWCC auctions when funny business has been going on forever.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All the stuff going on on that side of the hobby has been a revelation to me. I am not in the least bit surprised, I just didn't know the names or the extent of it.

I have actually probably bought more cards via Probstein.

He does a fine job but their packaging is awful compared to PWCC.

The same name I sent you in a PM yesterday sends to both. It is common knowledge.

Like you I am not naming names on this board.

Anyone who thinks that somehow this is relegated to one auction house is dreaming. One of the reasons I think it is more prevalent to PWCC is they run a very serious business and do it well. The cash advances and use of cards as credit to buy more just leads to more submissions and the more submissions they get the more bids they get and once more the more submissions they get. It isn't rocket science.

Probably six years ago I got a serious warning on the CU message board from the moderator because I had accused someone of bidding on their own cards in a Probstein auction. The next day the person came into the thread and admitted it and the bids were canceled. This was at a similar time when Rick kept having a guy from NJ win auctions that he previewed in person and they would get sent to PSA and bumped and back in the next months auction.

The card business is a dirty business and you just have to do your best.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

The card business is a dirty business and you just have to do your best.

Yet here you are sticking up for entities within the hobby who are clearly not on the up and up.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I have actually probably bought more cards via Probstein.

He does a fine job but their packaging is awful compared to PWCC.

The same name I sent you in a PM yesterday sends to both. It is common knowledge.

Like you I am not naming names on this board.

Anyone who thinks that somehow this is relegated to one auction house is dreaming. One of the reasons I think it is more prevalent to PWCC is they run a very serious business and do it well. The cash advances and use of cards as credit to buy more just leads to more submissions and the more submissions they get the more bids they get and once more the more submissions they get. It isn't rocket science.

Probably six years ago I got a serious warning on the CU message board from the moderator because I had accused someone of bidding on their own cards in a Probstein auction. The next day the person came into the thread and admitted it and the bids were canceled. This was at a similar time when Rick kept having a guy from NJ win auctions that he previewed in person and they would get sent to PSA and bumped and back in the next months auction.

The card business is a dirty business and you just have to do your best.

It's difficult to navigate for sure. I avoid quite a few sellers on anything significant, but that only gets you so far because cards circulate and I am sure I don't always spot the bad ones. Buying lower grades than I used to might have helped some or at least limited the exposure, but again, likely an imperfect solution.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I have actually probably bought more cards via Probstein.

He does a fine job but their packaging is awful compared to PWCC.

For those of you who've been around a while...

Mastro's packaging was also by far "best in class". 10 - 12 years ago, everyone here raved endlessly about their wonderful packaging and the fancy paper.

A very nice diversion tactic.

[VoodooChild]

Due to a new job and moving from MD to AL, I haven't posted much in the past couple of years. Only 420 (ha...nice!!) posts in the past 6.5 years. Although I have still been actively collecting/buying.

I both purchased from and consigned to PWCC in the past. I did VERY well with my consignments. I do not buy anywhere close to high-end/graded cards and while I still collect modern, I don't even pay attention to graded modern stuff. That concept doesn't even make sense to me. Look, I have defended PWCC in the past but only when the accusations were just shilling. I knew that shilling had some effect on the prices realized but that was a problem with the eBay format as a whole. I thought factors such as having auctions every month that spanned pre-war to modern in all sports, being able to combine shipping and not having to pay until auction close, and being able to set snipes and not having to stay up all night/early morning to see if you won, all played into the prices people were willing to pay. I still believe all of that by the way.

However, I answered this poll that I won't buy from or consign to PWCC again and I won't. They should have to pay some serious consequences for their role in this fraud scandal but I'm skeptical. I probably won't buy from Probstein either and I may just be done buying pre-war from eBay altogether. I may actually be done with PSA too. I don't need any "hard" evidence to make up my own mind that PSA is involved with all this shady stuff. Somebody got paid off I'm sure of it. So, where does that leave me? Do I only buy SGC? I like Al's response to all of this, so do I only buy from LOTG? I don't know what to do yet. I'm pretty pissed off but I am not naive. I knew this stuff was going on since I was a kid in the early 80's. There were rumors about my local card shop owner trimming cards back then. And even though Gary/and all card "doctors" are really to blame for this, the thing that pisses me off the most is how PSA spends 10 seconds "examining" a card, slaps a b.s. grade on it, charges way too much, and somehow most people (including me) consider them the experts in the field. Ha....I think I just talked myself into being done with PSA and maybe even graded cards in general.

Life is too short. I got back into this hobby for fun and I am going to return to that. I'll keep my pre-war collection in tact and enjoy it when I can. I'll still enjoy buying raw modern cards and keeping up with the hobby as well. I'll stay connected with my favorite teams (Pirates, Steelers, Penguins) through this hobby but will not consider it a financial investment ever again. It's just cardboard, right.

[brad31]

There was a post on another message board where this card had been called out on Blowout - Probstein was alerted, ended the auction and relisted the card as altered.

This card has been repatched.

Maybe something will come out - but given the chance to do the same thing on the Mantle PWCC did not.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALTERED-200...d=362623039502