Mears 'Authentic'

[Runscott]

I'm seeing bats with a designation of 'Mears Authentic', as opposed to the usual A1-A10. What does a simple 'Authentic' designation mean?

Also, if Mears states that it is 'game used', has that term fallen to the status of ebay sellers, meaning: "it was used to hit a ball, probably in a game of some sort, pick-up or otherwise."

[drcy]

I think those are their 'auction' LOAs, like the old PSA/DNA and JSA autograph auction LOAs. Though by Mears auction LOAs I mean for their own auctions, not for other auction houses. As far as I know.

It's not a 'reject' grade as with SGC/PSA and baseball cards. I think it's just quick and dirty certificate for consigned items.

Also MEARS only gives 1-10 grades to jerseys and bats. Hats, shoes, etc will just get an Authentic grade.

[Runscott]

Thanks.

Okay, but I'm looking at the Mears auction that ends tonight. All the bats that I have checked simply have an 'authentic' grade. If Mears is the grader, and it's a Mears auction, why have they decided to stop putting the numeric grades on their bats?

As a prospective buyer, I like to know what they really think - 'authentic' doesn't tell me much.

[ruth-gehrig]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Thanks.

Okay, but I'm looking at the Mears auction that ends tonight. All the bats that I have checked simply have an 'authentic' grade. If Mears is the grader, and it's a Mears auction, why have they decided to stop putting the numeric grades on their bats?

As a prospective buyer, I like to know what they really think - 'authentic' doesn't tell me much.

+1

[Runscott]

Weird that the legendary one went for $3500 with the juice. I thought Ruth gamers were $20,000 or more?

Am I asking about double secret probation stuff?

[Westsiders]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Weird that the legendary one went for $3500 with the juice. I thought Ruth gamers were $20,000 or more?

Am I asking about double secret probation stuff?

Just saw that one....although the bat is short at 34 1/4", still a great pick up for $3500 (hopefully someone here picked it up).

[Runscott]

Thanks, now I get it: 2 short bats

[kengoldin]

The reason those bats went so cheaply, and the reason for the "'auth" grade is it is incredibly unlikely those bats were used by babe Ruth or ever held by babe Ruth.
You wil rarely see Ruth bats that are true " gamers" with good provenance and solid LOAs go for under $75000
The best ones, 36 inches and 40+ ounces for early-mid 1920 s will be 150,000-300,000 and the top top of the line ones, the PSA 10 s with the unquestionable provenance and the ones with special attribution will sell 250,000 into the millions.
The ones you see that are short, light, no provenance, no grade even though sent to a TPA are " fools gold"

To further illustrate this point, I point you to Hunts fanfest auction this past July. They had three "professional model" Ruth bats for sale

With BP, lots
640 36 inch 40+ ounce bat with provenance sold for $166,000
643 short bat not found on orders, and with a MEARS "a5" sold for $9200
818 a signed game used bat with psa and MEARS LOAs sold for $87000

I was the buyer of lots 640 and 818. One I will keep in my 500 home run collection forever,one I will sell at some point in the future .
I PASSED on lot 643 because I would not be comfortable ever selling it as a " Ruth game used bat"


Sorry if anyone finds this post too blunt. I ft it important based on the questions raised t make sure those who intend to "dabble " in A Ruth game used bat purchase have some facts and know whether you are spending $3000 or $300,000 you know exactly what it is you are buying.



Ken goldin

[Mark]

This seems like a sensible approach to high end bats. But going back to the OP's question, Mears has been auctioning a lot of relatively inexpensive bats as authentic. I wonder if, in many cases, they are unwilling to grade because the grading service costs $100-300 but the bat is not going to get more that $150 in the auction.

[Runscott]

Ken, your response was very straight-forward and answered my questions perfectly. There is too much tap-dancing when it comes to issues like this, so hearing a response like this was refreshing and very much appreciated - thanks.

edited to add: it sounds like the two Ruth bats I posted were very misleading and could very well have been sold to people who thought they were buying bats actually used in games by Babe Ruth. That really sucks.

[kengoldin]

Glad it is appreciated
the other thing you need to look out for, is a 'Babe Ruth pro model' bat that was USED BY A DIFFERENT PLAYER being sold as 'Babe Ruth professional model bat' and in description says 'shows game use'.
This is why Goldin AUctions posts every LOA for everyone to read. In PSA/DNA LOAs, for example, you can actually see things like 'bat shows use but was not used by xxx player' meaning: A different player ordered someone elses model bat and used it.
so it is indeed an xxx model bat, game used...but not used by the named player.
typically the price dictates it as the true players know the score. In all cases, you really need to SEE and READ the LOA. They will normally detail everything.

in Game used bats, an 'auth' or an 'A5' typically means it is a pro model bat, with no link to the player named on the bat (ie, a Mickey mantle model bat that was used by Billy Martin....and I mention that example because one was recently offered ...)

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

...
typically the price dictates it as the true players know the score.
...

Yep, and knowing that there are plenty of true players on top of all the good bats, I watch with interest and curiosity, but seldom play. I have one super-fantastic bat and that will probably be it, unless I have a wealthy relative that I'm unaware of.

[drcy]

My rhetorical tap dancing was strictly due to my high level of ignorance. Usually my fancy words and colorful language cover it from view.

[markf31]

I actually posed this exact question to the people at Mears last week prior to the end of the auction. I had an interest in several of the bats but didn't go above my initial qualifying bid.

Me email to Mears was:
I'm curious why this bat is only listed as having been authenticated, but was not graded?

Or are these two separate services you offer for consigned bats.

Thanks
Mark

This is the reply I received:
Sometimes for lower grade bats, we just issue the authentic grade. I would assume this bat is a 5 or 6. troy

Its a little bit of an ambiguous answer and one I didn't feel comfortable with bidding on the bats with. The specific bat I questioned was the 1921-31 Goose Goslin Game Used Bat which they listed as Authentic.

If you go by the reply I received and Mears' grading standards, an A5 grade denotes a bat that matches factory records for the specific player and labeling period and is considered being a "from the bat rack" with no visible signs of use. However the Goslin auction listing clearly states "Bat currently measures 35.5", weighs 36 ounces and shows heavy use with ball marks, stitch marks and an area of deadwood on the reverse of the barrel" So evidence of heavy use would, by their grading standards push the bat higher than A5 grade and you would think with a Game Used bat from a HOFer they would chose to do a full grade designation and not just an "Authentic" grade.

Something just did not add up for me and I decided to not pursue any of the Authentic bats. It seems they're contradicting their own grading and authentication standards. On one hand the auction title says Game Used Bat and the description mentions heavy use, but the grade of "Authentic" and the potential of the bat actually grading out at an A5 (as per the email reply from Mears) which does NOT it seem to guarantee game usage, but rather that it was in fact only a game issued bat, are contradictory.

I haven't acquire a gamer yet for my collection. Though they intrigue me to no end! While I always enjoy following all the auctions, researching the subject and increasing my knowledge of game used bats, its instances and situations like this that give me pause when I consider going for one.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by markf31

I actually posed this exact question to the people at Mears last week prior to the end of the auction. I had an interest in several of the bats but didn't go above my initial qualifying bid.

Me email to Mears was:
I'm curious why this bat is only listed as having been authenticated, but was not graded?

Or are these two separate services you offer for consigned bats.

Thanks
Mark

This is the reply I received:
Sometimes for lower grade bats, we just issue the authentic grade. I would assume this bat is a 5 or 6. troy

Its a little bit of an ambiguous answer and one I didn't feel comfortable with bidding on the bats with. The specific bat I questioned was the 1921-31 Goose Goslin Game Used Bat which they listed as Authentic.

If you go by the reply I received and Mears' grading standards, an A5 grade denotes a bat that matches factory records for the specific player and labeling period and is considered being a "from the bat rack" with no visible signs of use. However the Goslin auction listing clearly states "Bat currently measures 35.5", weighs 36 ounces and shows heavy use with ball marks, stitch marks and an area of deadwood on the reverse of the barrel" So evidence of heavy use would, by their grading standards push the bat higher than A5 grade and you would think with a Game Used bat from a HOFer they would chose to do a full grade designation and not just an "Authentic" grade.

Something just did not add up for me and I decided to not pursue any of the Authentic bats. It seems they're contradicting their own grading and authentication standards. On one hand the auction title says Game Used Bat and the description mentions heavy use, but the grade of "Authentic" and the potential of the bat actually grading out at an A5 (as per the email reply from Mears) which does NOT it seem to guarantee game usage, but rather that it was in fact only a game issued bat, are contradictory.

I haven't acquire a gamer yet for my collection. Though they intrigue me to no end! While I always enjoy following all the auctions, researching the subject and increasing my knowledge of game used bats, its instances and situations like this that give me pause when I consider going for one.

Glancing at the records from Malta's 2007 book, it looks like that bat could have been said to match factory records. In 23, Goslin ordered bats with a 35 1/2" length and weighing 38 oz. as well as other 35 & 1/2" bats with a weight that is not specified in the records. Since Mears claims that bats typically lose 3 oz. (and sometimes 4 to 6 oz.!), it seems that they could have looked to those records and slapped a high number on it. Not sure why it didn't get a higher grade. In any case, I think of myself as a collector of pro model bats and try to pick up models that, according to known records, could have been game used.

[Runscott]

...and thanks to Mark and Mark for providing additional information.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by Mark

Glancing at the records from Malta's 2007 book, it looks like that bat could have been said to match factory records. In 23, Goslin ordered bats with a 35 1/2" length and weighing 38 oz. as well as other 35 & 1/2" bats with a weight that is not specified in the records. Since Mears claims that bats typically lose 3 oz. (and sometimes 4 to 6 oz.!), it seems that they could have looked to those records and slapped a high number on it. Not sure why it didn't get a higher grade. In any case, I think of myself as a collector of pro model bats and try to pick up models that, according to known records, could have been game used.

And especially with pre-model bats it only makes the job of trying to determine actual game usage by the specific player even more difficult if not impossible without provenance. Once you get into the model number issued bats it at least adds another layer to the record the bat must match.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Mark

... Since Mears claims that bats typically lose 3 oz. (and sometimes 4 to 6 oz.!), it seems that they could have looked to those records and slapped a high number on it. Not sure why it didn't get a higher grade.

Here's another take on this (from another Mark no less.) I find it refreshingly honest when a combination grading company/auction house does NOT grade items they are about to sell. Seems to me they are recognizing the rather obvious conflict of interest, and by not assigning specific numeric grades that might allow them to "slap a higher number on it," they are doing the ethical thing.

If they have graded the item previously, there's no such conflict. But if a consignor comes in with a really great ungraded piece and the auction house knows it can jack the hammer amount by assigning a high grade... Well, I'm just saying, I think it's a sign of integrity when they don't do that.

If I had such an item, I'd do this: First, I'd get it graded. Then, considering their opinion, the grade they gave it, and the post-grading estimated value of the item, I'd go ahead and consign it. That, to me, is the right way to do things, better ensures an unbiased grade, and thus keeps the entire process 100% honest.

-Mark III