Any player cards you dont collect because of morals

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

i collect historical figures but there I draw some lines -- no Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, or Trump.

Same. And I bought the 1956 Topps Adventure set WITHOUT the Max Schmeling card because I like the other boxing cards but have no interest in having a swastika in my collection.

[mrreality68]

I collect players and cards I like. I research the players and enjoy the history and the stories behind the game.
I do not truly not buy/or not buy a player based on their politics, behavior, character, etc.
If We did there are many, many players we would not collect. Each does as they do.

[Rad_Hazard]

I also avoid Anson, but that's about it.

[packs]

I love the Giants but don't collect Lawrence Taylor.

[Belfast1933]

It's always bugged me to hear that John McGraw was said to have carried a small piece of rope from a lynching "for luck"

I first heard this during the Ken Burns baseball series many years ago and I think of it often when looking at his cards (i'm a HOP "as a player" collector so it's not an issue with McGraw)

But still...

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

It's always bugged me to hear that John McGraw was said to have carried a small piece of rope from a lynching "for luck"

I first heard this during the Ken Burns baseball series many years ago and I think of it often when looking at his cards (i'm a HOP "as a player" collector so it's not an issue with McGraw)

But still...

McGraw was a weird intense character that tended to rub people the wrong way at times, as well as doing conflicting things. It is horribly odd that this was a perverse tradition at the time and not uncommon. What is weirder is that in a true example of conflicting actions, McGraw did actually try to break the color barrier in 1901 by attempting to sneak in Charles Grant Jr as an American Indian named Chief Tokohama. If it wasn’t for Charles Comiskey putting a stop to it by recognizing Grant, McGraw would have been successful.

As an example that few may know of this sick tradition, feel free to read about Nap Lajoie -

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by JustinD

McGraw was a weird intense character that tended to rub people the wrong way at times, as well as doing conflicting things. It is horribly odd that this was a perverse tradition at the time and not uncommon. What is weirder is that in a true example of conflicting actions, McGraw did actually try to break the color barrier in 1901 by attempting to sneak in Charles Grant Jr as an American Indian named Chief Tokohama. If it wasn’t for Charles Comiskey putting a stop to it by recognizing Grant, McGraw would have been successful.

As an example that few may know of this sick tradition, feel free to read about Nap Lajoie -

Wow, horrible… almost wish I didn’t know about this. (But thx for sharing - just wish his history wasn’t so tarnished by something like this)

[Chuck9788]

Originally Posted by JustinD

As an example that few may know of this sick tradition, feel free to read about Nap Lajoie -

So I did some research on the lynching of Richard Robertson (above article).

Robertson was arrested and jailed in January 1909, for allegedly shooting and killing Deputy Philip Fatch.

The altercation occurred after two deputies, including Fatch, arrived at Robertson’s home to arrest him on a warrant for assault. Robertson, a carpenter working on a home in downtown Mobile, had been accused by two white plumbers – also working on the same home – of assault.

Robertson fled the deputies, and all three exchanged gunfire. Robertson was shot and transported to jail.

I am in no way justifying a barbaric lynching (or the accepting of hanging ropes as gifts). I'm only pointing out that this was not an "innocent" man that hung that day.

[JustinD]

Not a set collector, so I just buy cards I want and like. I guess by definition that makes it easy to pass by players I simply don't like.

I don't really often get concerned about the history or character of the player if I like the card.

I can remember circle-filing a few Denny McLain's simply for being a complete excuse filled d**k as I knew people in the town he helped destroy with his embezzlement scheme. So I guess that's one, as it personally touched me. I never bought one, but if it comes in a lot...it's gone.

[steve B]

Not really. Although there were card sets I just couldn't get interested in. Like one that was all serial killers. Got the promo pack in a lot and probably still have it somewhere. I can't recall ever seeing the cards offered, so it's possible they didn't end up being issued.

AH the early 90s when there were boatloads of cards about everything.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

Same. And I bought the 1956 Topps Adventure set WITHOUT the Max Schmeling card because I like the other boxing cards but have no interest in having a swastika in my collection.

Fully agree with this. At the National the first booth I went to had a table full of nazi cards. Really off putting, especially since I went with a friend who is Jewish. There are some lines to draw and that’s certainly one for me.

[campyfan39]

Great original post and thought provoking for sure!

Some really sad things on this thread. Certainly a "lucky lynching rope" is putrid. Also foreign to me is the concept of not dealing with a dealer who has different political views from my own. I also find it beyond the pale that Trump was compared with Hitler and Stalin (the later 2 killed millions upon millions of people). Ignorant and unwise hyperbole. An interesting topic gone off the rails with some extremist comments.

To answer OP: I selectively collect players I like but am fine with ones I don't being in sets. For me the other side of that coin is more apparent in my collection: My favorite player is Campanella in part because of his character: overcoming discrimination and staying positive after the accident. Yet I am also aware that he wasn't the best husband to at least one of his wives.

Every human has strong faults and flaws. I try not to cast too many stones because i know my own heart is not always where it should be.

[ALR-bishop]

As a set collector I collect all cards in any set I collect...the good, the bad and the ugly. I guess I could feel a little guitly about buying a fantasy 1959 Ed Bouchee card

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

As a set collector I collect all cards in any set I collect...the good, the bad and the ugly. I guess I could feel a little guitly about buying a fantasy 1959 Ed Bouchee card

I forgot him being an immoral Cub too! It took me forever to get a decent 1962 Canadian Post of his.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

As a set collector I collect all cards in any set I collect...the good, the bad and the ugly. I guess I could feel a little guitly about buying a fantasy 1959 Ed Bouchee card

Al, don't shame the centerpiece of my pervert autograph collection.

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Fully agree with this. At the National the first booth I went to had a table full of nazi cards. Really off putting, especially since I went with a friend who is Jewish. There are some lines to draw and that’s certainly one for me.

Yup, and that's another reason why I won't collect some old non-sports issues. On a related note, I'll sometimes attend in-person auctions in Indiana and also bid in some auctions from smaller companies online, and it bothers me that many of these auction houses sell Nazi paraphernalia. They sell this crap because obviously some people buy it, but I have considered contacting the owners of these auction houses and asking them why they wish to perpetuate interest in objects associated with nothing buy hate. I've held off from doing so....people have a right to sell what they want as long as it's not illegal. But I may well start personally avoiding the places that include such items in their auctions. I'm sure my business wouldn't be missed in most cases.

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

Yup, and that's another reason why I won't collect some old non-sports issues. On a related note, I'll sometimes attend in-person auctions in Indiana and also bid in some auctions from smaller companies online, and it bothers me that many of these auction houses sell Nazi paraphernalia. They sell this crap because obviously some people buy it, but I have considered contacting the owners of these auction houses and asking them why they wish to perpetuate interest in objects associated with nothing buy hate. I've held off from doing so....people have a right to sell what they want as long as it's not illegal. But I may well start personally avoiding the places that include such items in their auctions. I'm sure my business wouldn't be missed in most cases.

I couldn’t possibly agree more…. Cheers to you for taking a personal stand.

And related, I occasionally see posts of late 1800’s card sets which include incredibly racist caricature images of African American baseball players, etc. I just can’t imagine how there is joy in collecting cards that perpetuate inages like this. Clearly some do, and to each his own, I guess. I just don’t get it

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

I couldn’t possibly agree more…. Cheers to you for taking a personal stand.

And related, I occasionally see posts of late 1800’s card sets which include incredibly racist caricature images of African American baseball players, etc. I just can’t imagine how there is joy in collecting cards that perpetuate inages like this. Clearly some do, and to each his own, I guess. I just don’t get it

Well said

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

I couldn’t possibly agree more…. Cheers to you for taking a personal stand.

And related, I occasionally see posts of late 1800’s card sets which include incredibly racist caricature images of African American baseball players, etc. I just can’t imagine how there is joy in collecting cards that perpetuate inages like this. Clearly some do, and to each his own, I guess. I just don’t get it

Thanks Jeff. For me, the issue hits too close to home.
BTW, I agree with your related comment about early cards with racist caricatures of ball players. I dare say that most would not see any joy in collecting those particular cards. I do understand though, that there may be some historians or completists that would purchase these items (I can appreciate a financial motivation to sell a complete set if it brings more $$, so maybe there is the feeling of a need to add a card that might be offensive to some, in order to get that additional financial gain).

This has been an interesting thread. I've learned some things I never knew before. I hazard to guess that another interesting thread might be this: Would you draft or do you currently carry any unethical or immoral players on your fantasy teams!! Now I'm sure that would open a can of worms!

[todeen]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

Yup, and that's another reason why I won't collect some old non-sports issues. On a related note, I'll sometimes attend in-person auctions in Indiana and also bid in some auctions from smaller companies online, and it bothers me that many of these auction houses sell Nazi paraphernalia. They sell this crap because obviously some people buy it, but I have considered contacting the owners of these auction houses and asking them why they wish to perpetuate interest in objects associated with nothing buy hate. I've held off from doing so....people have a right to sell what they want as long as it's not illegal. But I may well start personally avoiding the places that include such items in their auctions. I'm sure my business wouldn't be missed in most cases.

I wanted to buy some Nazi coinage once, and my mother heard about it and gave me a rebuke. I'm a historian, and to me I see a historical artifact. But I passed them up and haven't ever bought any.

I think a similar question to sale of Nazi items is: why are serial killer books and shows so popular? I imagine collecting items of evil and watching items of evil have many similar characteristics.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[clydepepper]

First, I only collect Baseball, so, many of those mentioned previously, aren't in my 'arena'.

I do discriminate against PED users - the sole exception being journeyman catcher Geff Zaun, who actually did 'call his shot' in the 1999 Hall-of-Fame game I attended in Cooperstown.

I also will never collect Rose or any other cheaters...as, in doing so, IMO, dishonors the legacy of those who did not cheat.

Besides, I'd go broke trying to collect EVERYBODY.


.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I do discriminate against PED users - the sole exception being journeyman catcher Geff Zaun, who actually did 'call his shot' in the 1999 Hall-of-Fame game I attended in Cooperstown.




.

Gregg Zaun, you conflated him with Geoff Zahn, who laid an egg for the Cubs when they traded a disgruntled Burt Hooton for him.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Gregg Zaun, you conflated him with Geoff Zahn, who laid an egg for the Cubs when they traded a disgruntled Burt Hooton for him.

You are correct...oops! I remember the event more than the name.


.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by todeen

I wanted to buy some Nazi coinage once, and my mother heard about it and gave me a rebuke. I'm a historian, and to me I see a historical artifact. But I passed them up and haven't ever bought any.

I think a similar question to sale of Nazi items is: why are serial killer books and shows so popular? I imagine collecting items of evil and watching items of evil have many similar characteristics.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

I would think they are probably popular because they are exciting, the opposite of the banality of evil if we may keep the comparison; evil at it's most visceral. Many are the most extreme type of mystery, that with the highest stakes and consequences. The element of the unknown, oftentimes in the identity of the killer and in the bizarre compulsions driving the tragic act, certainly seems to appeal to many. I think history shows us that every people in every time and of every faith and of no faith have been fascinated with death, the cost we all eventually must pay to enjoy life. People are interested when they hear something shocking. The vast, vast majority see the villain of the piece as the villain of the piece, and while interested there is no element of support for the actions of that evil. If watching horror movies made one a monster, nobody could still be alive.

I have read true crime books. I see nothing immoral in having done so. I have a large library of history books, almost all of which contain material greatly objectionable to current orthodoxy. Some of them contain Nazi's and their symbols. One of them is about a serial killer in Berlin under the Nazi regime, even. I once had a friend of a friend at a gathering at my place get upset and storm out because of the "Nazi flag" on my living room table, which after investigating what they were on about, turned out to be the book jacket to William Shirer's book I was reading that week (and is very anti-Nazi). I have read Mein Kampf in its entirety. History, genuine inquiry into it, is not the study of things one likes or their party finds amenable to their narrative, as nobody states but most seem to clearly desire. My collection of history cards contains some good and some bad and mostly grey. I will never understand the increasingly popular view that that which is bad or negative in the narrative is offensive, and that that which is offensive needs to be censored, whether formally or informally, kept from public view, or curated out of collections, and only a very ill-defined and constantly shifting world view ever be permissible to seriously engage with, which often includes individuals who did great evil as well but are amenable to the narrative.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by todeen

I wanted to buy some Nazi coinage once, and my mother heard about it and gave me a rebuke. I'm a historian, and to me I see a historical artifact. But I passed them up and haven't ever bought any.

I think a similar question to sale of Nazi items is: why are serial killer books and shows so popular? I imagine collecting items of evil and watching items of evil have many similar characteristics.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

its probably about timing..give it 200 years..and there will be more nazi buyers etc

[darwinbulldog]

No one for me. There are plenty of living people that I find repugnant enough that I'd prefer to avoid them, but that doesn't impact which cards I buy. Probably most of the players in my collection I'd find personally objectionable if I knew enough about them. Obviously, some are worse than others, but when one stops believing in contra-causal free will, one also stops holding people morally accountable for their character.

[Vintagedeputy]

I collect cards of athletes. I don’t care what tobacco ad is on the back of a T206. It’s the player and what they did on the field between the lines that matters to me in my collection.

Pete Rose is a schmo. We all know that OJ killed those people. Mickey Mantle was a drunk who once said that his greatest baseball thrill was getting a blow job under the bleachers. Billy Martin was a raging alcoholic. Curt Schilling may not get into the HOF for his political views, etc.

I don’t care.

Pete Rose was one of the greatest players of all time. OJ was a HOF running back. Mantle was a Yankee legend. Billy Martin was one of the greatest managers I ever saw. Schilling was a 3x WS winner with 216 wins under his belt.

I have to work with people every day with the crappiest, oh let’s just call them “personal attributes”. These are people I certainly won’t be inviting over to my house for a cookout….but I have to only concern myself with their work. I can’t judge them for their political stance, sexual preference or if they cheat on their wives.

I treat sports card collecting the same.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I have to work with people every day with the crappiest, oh let’s just call them “personal attributes”. These are people I certainly won’t be inviting over to my house for a cookout….but I have to only concern myself with their work. I can’t judge them for their political stance, sexual preference or if they cheat on their wives.

I treat sports card collecting the same.

I don't know what you do or did for a living, but you would most certainly have been a great Navy officer. As the song lyric goes, "You've got to keep 'em separated.'

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I don't know what you do or did for a living, but you would most certainly have been a great Navy officer. As the song lyric goes, "You've got to keep 'em separated.'

Thank you. Been involved in public safety in one form or another for 30+ years. I’ve always been the same way.

When I was in law enforcement, I didn’t care if you were black, white, pink or purple, Republican or Democrat, gay or straight. A criminal was a criminal and a victim was a victim; everyone got treated the same, by the book.

When I was a firefighter, I didn’t stop fighting the fire if you voted for someone I didn’t like in the last election.

When I was an EMT, I didn’t stop doing CPR because your sexual preference was different than mine.

I just did my job, and I kept my personal opinions personal.

[JimmyC]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I collect cards of athletes. I don’t care what tobacco ad is on the back of a T206. It’s the player and what they did on the field between the lines that matters to me in my collection.

Pete Rose is a schmo. We all know that OJ killed those people. Mickey Mantle was a drunk who once said that his greatest baseball thrill was getting a blow job under the bleachers. Billy Martin was a raging alcoholic. Curt Schilling may not get into the HOF for his political views, etc.

I don’t care.

Pete Rose was one of the greatest players of all time. OJ was a HOF running back. Mantle was a Yankee legend. Billy Martin was one of the greatest managers I ever saw. Schilling was a 3x WS winner with 216 wins under his belt.

I have to work with people every day with the crappiest, oh let’s just call them “personal attributes”. These are people I certainly won’t be inviting over to my house for a cookout….but I have to only concern myself with their work. I can’t judge them for their political stance, sexual preference or if they cheat on their wives.

I treat sports card collecting the same.

Nice post and position on the topic....I like it....