Counterfeit Kendig Caramel Cards?

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Posted By: RobertS 

I just noticed an auction on eBay (Item # 1845767795) for a caramel card with a Kendig back that may be problematic.

According to Bob Lemke's book, "Sportscard Counterfeit Detector" Kendig never released baseball cards.

However, the card in question is said to be a 1922 card, and Lemke's book refers to cards made from 1916 Collins-McCarthy images.

Lemke writes on page 35 of his 1994 book:

"These cards should more accurately be classified among the fatnasies than true counterfeits bacause the company never issued cards. However, since Kendig's did issue trading cards, and since most collectors and dealers are not all that familiar with legitimate issues of the 1910s, it seems appropriate to include these cards within the body of the book.

"These fantasies/counterfeits were first reported in late 1989, having surfaced at East Coast flea markets. Two players were reported seen on the cards, Babe Ruth and Ray Chapman; others most certainly exist.

"Card fronts were apparently copied from the 1916 Collins-McCarthy 'Baseball's Hall of Fame issue of 200 cards, with the exception that the card number from the originals was not included on the fakes. This might account for the fantasy cards measuring only 3 1/8 inches in length, rather than the 3 1/4 inches of genuine E-135s.

"Backs of the phony baseball cards appear to have been rubber-stamped, reproducing the typography and layout found on Kendig's 'Flags of The World' cards which were roughly contemporary with the Collins-MCcarthy.

"Genuine E-135s have a semi-gloss surface on the front. The purpoted Kendig's baseball cards are printed on porous paper which has been artificially aged"

That said, a few years ago a lot of four fake Kendigs were floating around on eBay, with several winning bidders returning the cards to the seller after seeing them. They were way too thin (with images showing right through) and the ink appeared brand new on the front, although the paper was made to look old. In fact, I was the underbidder on the lot and the seller eventually sent it to me on "spec" saying the other bidders had failed to pay and I could check them out before paying.

After I sent them back to him, I eventually saw the same four cards at an antique shop after the owner had been duped on eBay, as well. (He pulled them from his showcase immediately, when he realized they weren't real).

So, if Mr. Lemke is reading this, please check out eBay Item # 1845767795 and let us know if this card is genuine. It appears that a couple of posters to this board have already bid on this lot.

By the way, the seller appears to be an upstanding eBay citizen, with many, many positives as both a buyer and a seller -- and he seems to be selling some nice items (later year cards). If these cards are fakes, I doubt if he knows it.

Then again, perhaps this is the first legitimate Kendig and Lemke's book was wrong in saying the company never issued baseball cards.

I just wanted to bring this to light, as Lemke's 1994 Sportscard Counterfeit Detector book is out of print, although it still is listed on Amazon. As such, I assume most of you don't have a copy -- especially since it concentrated mainly on post-war cards (although there is an excellent section on the Babe Ruth Fro-Joys).

Cheers!

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Posted By: David

If the cards are original they were made with half-tone photoengraving which is practically impossible to duplicate in modern times. This type of printing is easy to identify with a handheld miscrocope.

As a side note, in order to make quality images, a super smooth paper/cardboard surface was needed. This is why these types of cards commonly have super glossy fronts.

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Posted By: fkw

I have owned a couple Kendig Chocolate cards, and I think they are real W575-1 cards with a Kendig stamp on back, its that simple. In my opinion, after looking at them in person, the cards look real. If they were fake, I think we'd see more than 2-5 a year on eBay, and not mixed grades like Ive seen. Wish I still had one so I can take a closer look again. I had a nice clean EX+/NRMT one and a low grade G/VG one, both had light printing on back from an ink stamp, and were handcut. I also have a similar "Johnson Candy Co. of Alameda" backstamped card that was originally a blank backed W575-1 that a merchant stamped and used for there own product. These are all handcut from sheets. Frank

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Posted By: RobertS

On eBay most of the fakes in the pre-1950 category simply are color photocopies or laser print paste-ups that reproduce real cards, not fantasies or "broders" of cards that never were.

As for the Henry Johnson, I own one of those, as well, and think the jury still is out. A very believable story surfaced about an elderly gentleman who remembered how they were printed in sheets and then rubber stamped on the back. But the cards still feel funny when you hold them and examine them. I probably agree with you, Frank, that they are real, but still think they are a little off.

As for the Kendigs I examined a couple of years ago -- they really looked way off in person. The paper was way off, strangely aged with bleed through from the reverse and you could tell the ink had been added after the aging processs.

This is not to say that the card offered now on eBay is definitely fake -- maybe the Kendigs that reproduce American Caramel images are real and those that have Collins-McCarthy are fake?

I would be very interested to hear from the winner after he examines the card.

Anyway...

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Posted By: leon

I had this same email with Glen V. last night. I then looked through about 20 old auction pamphlets to find the Lipset one I was looking for. It had a "Koenisberg" (not sure if that is correct spelling) full box in it. Mr. Lemke also said in an article with David Rudd, of Cycleback fame, that those cards were supposed to be fake. Don't hold my feet to the fire on this one but this is what I believe I read. Those particular ones are definitely NOT fake. The only relation I am making to this card is that just because someone believes something does not mean it is necessarily so. By saying this I am in no way doubting the expertise of those mentioned in this thread. They are recognized experts in our field by all who know them. Having chatted with both of them ( or having several nice emails with Mr. Lemke) I know that both of them are open for new ideas. After seeing a few cards in my short career I will need to examine this type card in person to make my own determination. From the look of it, it looks real. I have several "type" cards, including (2) of the (3) E121 "Creamnut or Goodie Bread" backed cards, a Johnson overprint card, a Witmor backed card, a few Gassler cards, a Gertenrich, some Gasslers, and a few others.......those cards have the "vintage" feel to them. By putting them under a magnifying instrument and actually holding and feeling ( and maybe smelling ) them you can get an idea. Generally, very even toning, that looks "too" even, is not a good sign. The card on ebay does look to have some pretty even toning on back....and yes, I know about most of the series that have trademark even toning.....'49 Leaf etc........bottom line is, if it has the look and feel of an older card it probably is.....I will side with Frank on this one until I can hold one and make my own determination....(not that I would always be correct)..so you guys let me win it and I will give you more of an opinion.....regards all .....

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Posted By: RobertS

Maybe the difference really is in the photo set -- meaning that maybe those with the 1922 photos are legit and the 1916 Collins-McCarthy ones are the imposters.

By the way, the Lemke article is available on David's Web site at http://cycleback.com/lemke.html . In this interview the Kendig's are only mentioned in passing...

Leon, if you win -- please let us know your thoughts on legitimacy.

By the way, anyone have any extra Lou Gertenrich-backed 1922 card available for sale or trade? I have an exra Gassler's American Maid Bread I might be willing to trade for it!

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Mark Macrae told me several months ago that all Kendig Chocolate cards are fake. There are very few in this industry who are as honest and knowledgeable as Mark.

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Posted By: leon

OK folks, never say that I will not admit a mistake I made. After a little investigating I now believe this to be a fake card (at least overprint-wise). It would make absolutely no sense to be advertising a company that was out of business and/or changed their name for 20 years....

1900 - Kendig Chocolate Company opens in Lititz, Pa.

In 1900, Kendig Chocolate Company, originally founded as a caramel factory, opened in Lititz, Pa.



1902 - Kendig was bought by new owners and changed its’ name to Ideal Cocoa and Chocolate Company and a new plant was built in Lititz

In 1902, Kendig was bought by new owners and changed its’ name to Ideal Cocoa and Chocolate Company. Not long after the name change, a new plant was constructed at 48 North Broad Street in Lititz. The name change supposedly took place on February 14, 1902, now commonly known as Valentine’s Day. Ideal Cocoa was known for their Chocolate Cigars, Nut Lunch Bars, Ideal Almond Bars, Noah’s Arks, and Ideal Cocoa.


I think this might be one of those issues that someone got a good idea on how to make money off of .....

regards all....and hope I am not the high bidder..........

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Posted By: RobertS

Leon--

Before my initial posting I did some Internet searching on Kendig but came up dry. Where did you find this info on the company -- is there a comprehensive repository of info somewhere about the caramel and candy companies? I've got some other questions which I would love to pursue about dates of issuance about some of the more obscure pre-war candy cards that I collect...

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Posted By: leon

I just did a search on google.com.........shoot me an email at my work if before 4pm CST at lluckey@tx.amherst1.com....or call me at 972-774-7032....so we might chat for a minute ...as you might know I collect obscure issues too

here is the link though

http://www.google.com/search?q=kendig+chocolate&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

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Posted By: David

Okay, I’ve said this before, but I don’t think anyone ever listens. First you need a handheld microscope of at least 30X power (higher power is better, but 30X will do). They cost under $20 each and are commonly found on eBay. Using your new handheld microscope, examine the player picture on the front of the card. If the card has the printing pattern like shown below, it is not a modern fake.

The key quality is the hard/dark rim around the printing. This was caused by the physical pressure during the printing. Also notice the little crosses in some of the dark dots. These little crosses are created as photographic image was ‘filtered’ during the making of the printing plate in a different way than lithography.

If your newspaper/magazine card has this type of printing, the card is old and authentic. Naturally, there could be a case of an authentic blank backed card where someone added a new stamp on the back, but the overall card itself is genuine. Authentication is a bit more complicated this just looking at this single quality. But the essential point is that this type of printing, with its unique qualities under the microscope, is out of date and essentially impossible to duplicate in modern times on a fake or reprint.

Of note, the below picture was taken from a Baseball Magazine Premium, which explains the brown ink.

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Posted By: leon

Thanks for the scan to show exactly what you are saying.....with that being said there is a good chance the card could be real but the stamp on back be a later version so an unscrupulous person could have financial gain......I had a 20 minute conversation with a very well known expert today (who I will not mention publicly because of his not knowing I am talking about this) and he agrees that this card looks too "even" in the toning dept.....and too, there is no explanation for the fact that the bottom of the card says "Kendig Chocolate Co." which was gone for at least 14 years when this card was issued.....if issued in 1916??.....and the seller says it is an E121/E122 type which dates it even later....too many inconsistancies.....regards all....

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Posted By: fkw

I always assumed the Kendigs were backstamped W575-1 cards, but never looked before. The card I had that I just sold a while back was Clarence Hodge. And I now see that Hodge wasnt in the W575-1 set. Nor is he in the E135 set. Clarence Hodge was only found in the E121 series of 120 set. Interesting. Oh well just thought Id throw that in. I still believe they are real. Frank

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Posted By: fkw

Maybe I should read the other posts first??

Leon, Interesting info on the Kendig Co. Frank