Getting the Record Straight Shoeless Joe Jackson Military service

[EVAJOY91]

NET54 MEMBERS, I POSTED BACK IN JULY A MAGNIFICENT SHOELESS JOE JACKSON PANORAMIC MILITARY PHOTOGRAPH. I SINCE HAVE CONSIGNED TO HUGGING & SCOTT FOR THEIR UPCOMING AUCTION (SEPT 29- OCT 29). THERE WERE SOME CONFUSION AS TO JACKSON'S SERVICE IN WW I. I'M HERE TO GET THE RECORD STRAIGHT. HERE'S A LINK WITH THE FULL DOCUMENTATION OF JACKSON'S SERVICE.
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/7afaa6b2

JACKSON PLAYED IN ONLY 17 GAMES IN 1918. HE WAS ORDERED FOR INDUCTION. JACKSON AVOIDED BATTLE. HIS SERVICE TO THE US MILITARY WAS TO BUILD BATTLESHIPS. JACKSON DIDN'T MISS THE ENTIRE 1918 BASEBALL SEASON TO TAKE A JOB BUILDING BATTLESHIPS UNLESS HE WAS ORDERED TO DO SO BY THE US GOVERNMENT.

FINAL NOTE:

FACIAL COMPARISON ON JOE JACKSON PANORAMIC MILITARY PHOTOGRAPH WITH KNOWN 1917, 1918 AND 1919 PHOTOS OF HIM IN A CHICAGO WHITE SOX UNIFORM IS AN EXACT MATCH. JACKSON'S NOSE AND "BUMP ON CHIN" MATCH PERFECT. ANY AND ALL QUESTIONS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED TO ME AT MY EMAIL. I HAVE FORWARDED MY RESEARCH WITH FULL DOCUMENTATION TO THE NECESSARY PARTIES INVOLVED IN MAKING SOME FALSE ACCUSATIONS ON THIS SHOELESS JOE JACKSON PANORAMIC MILITARY PHOTO.

PHOTO MATCH PHOTOS ATTACHED: NOSE AND "BUMP ON JACKSON'S CHIN" ARE A PERFECT MATCH. "EYES ANS EYEBROWS" A PERFECT MATCH. THANK YOU FOR ALL NET54 MEMBERS FOR YOUR HELP.THANKS AGAIN. MIKE

[Ladder7]

Congratulations, youre filthy rich!

[jerseygary]

I'd be interested to read the military service documentation. The SABR biography you linked to just confirms what every book I've read about him says - he was ostracized by the press and White Sox owner for avoiding serving in the war and first getting a deferment and then a baseball job with a ship builder. Did I miss the Army part?

When was he in the Army and what units did he serve with? Can you list what the writing is on the top of the photo? Is it dated? I can make out Camp Meade but I'd like to know what the rest is because then you may be able to research the unit or class the photo is from, then get Jackson's record from that.

[jerseygary]

Ok, Huggins & Scott has the text for the top of the picture: “Camp Surgeons Office, Special Examining Board” on December 4, 1918 at Camp Meade, MD."

[EVAJOY91]

YES, YOU MISSED THIS. JACKSON PLAYED IN ONLY 17 GAMES IN 1918. HE THEN WAS ORDERED FOR INDUCTION. INSTEAD OF GETTING A GUN AND GO TO FIGHT OVERSEAS HE WAS GIVEN A JOB TO BUILD BATTLESHIPS. JACKSON DIDN'T LEAVE THE GAME OF BASEBALL AFTER ONLY 17 GAMES TO TAKE A JOB BUILDING BATTLESHIPS IF HE WAS NOT ORDERED TO DO SO BY THE US GOVERNMENT. THIS WAS HIS SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY AT WAR. HE WAS IN THE MILITARY AND WAS severely criticized FOR NOT GOING OUT TO FIGHT.

[Nashvol]

http://sabr.org/research/delaware-ri...ng-league-1918

[Dave Grob]

I think you will be very hard pressed to find documentary evidence of Joe Jackson ever serving in uniform. Being ordered for induction did not equate to military service in uniform at this time. It meant, in accordance with the “work or fight policy” that Jackson was required to find employment directly related to supporting and advancing the war effort or join the uniformed ranks. “Being ordered for induction” meant that he was found physically fit and without any sort of other exemption that would have allowed him another option other than military service or, as stated above, to find employment directly related to supporting and advancing the war effort.

With respect to “being ordered to build ships”, this would not have been an order as this work was carried out in ship yards not under the control or supervision of the United States Army, and certainly not by the Camp Surgeons Office, Special Examining Board” on December 4, 1918 at Camp Meade, MD.

If you research and look at the July 1918 edition of Baseball Magazine you will find:

“Joe Jackson was the most noted player levied on by the draft during May—and, as already remarked, decided to go to a war-helping plant instead of active service”.

Or the December 1918 edition of Baseball Magazine (page 81) you will find reference to Jackson “building ships” and playing ball for the Harlan Shipbuilding Plant in Wilmington, Delaware.

I suspect that a deep dive into local contemporary newspapers would yield similar information that would flesh out the time line. Nice vintage photographic but I don’t think objective source information supports it being Joe Jackson.

Dave Grob
DaveGrob1@aol.com

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by EVAJOY91

FACIAL COMPARISON ON JOE JACKSON PANORAMIC MILITARY PHOTOGRAPH WITH KNOWN 1917, 1918 AND 1919 PHOTOS OF HIM IN A CHICAGO WHITE SOX UNIFORM IS AN EXACT MATCH. JACKSON'S NOSE AND "BUMP ON CHIN" MATCH PERFECT. PHOTO MATCH PHOTOS ATTACHED: NOSE AND "BUMP ON JACKSON'S CHIN" ARE A PERFECT MATCH. "EYES ANS EYEBROWS" A PERFECT MATCH. THANK YOU FOR ALL NET54 MEMBERS FOR YOUR HELP.THANKS AGAIN. MIKE

I am not convinced. All we can be certain of is that what you have posted is not clear enough to support your claims of PERFECT MATCH." "EYES AND EYEBROWS" are just a blur. Higher res please.

[yanks12025]

LOL Huggins and Scott even lists "Bump on chin and nose are a match".

[baseball tourist]

The OP seems to have a terminal case of "wishful thinking". Hoping that items of a generic sort are actually associated with big names (teams or players). I wish the OP best of luck but it is getting a tad tiresome:

- "Schalk" Sox pants - generic any team pants
- Crescent glove - softball glove
- Boston Americans photo.....not
- Amos R. Photo....not

[Lordstan]

This is weird. The OP links to a SABR bio of Jackson, but even this reference refutes his claim about Jackson.

From the linked SABR reference

"The White Sox were rocked by the entry of the United States into World War I. Several Chicago players enlisted in the military, while others were drafted in the early months of 1918. Joe, as a married man, was granted a deferment by his hometown draft board in Greenville, South Carolina, but after Jackson played 17 games with the White Sox the board reversed its decision and ordered him to report for induction. Instead, Jackson found employment at a Delaware shipyard, where he helped build battleships and played ball in a hastily assembled factory circuit, the Bethlehem Steel League. Jackson was the first prominent player to avoid the draft by opting for war work, for which he was severely criticized in the sporting press, especially in Chicago. He won the factory league batting title with a .371 average, but the controversy permanently damaged his relationships with the Chicago sportswriters."

Notice, it doesn't say he worked for or was a member of the Army or Armed Forces. It states that instead of the military, he got a job at a Delaware shipyard.

Seems pretty clear that he was not in the military, so he wouldn't be in that photo.

[Nashvol]

The SHOUTING isn't very convincing, either...

[EVAJOY91]

Much research went into this photograph. Other photos were used. 1917, 1918 and 1919 photos were matched with this one. Bump on chin, exact on all photos matched to this photo. Nose and eyebrows are a match. Similar side burns and shape of face. Answering your question on his service in the military. I ask you a question: Joe jackson started the season playing ball for the chicago white sox, . After 17 games he decided to take a less paying job for the us government building battleships that he was under qualified to do so. Would you not call this military service that he was instructed to do? It certainly was not voluntary. I would call this as service for the us military during ww i! Wouldn't you?

[mcgwirecom]

I was just looking at the photos. The man on the left has and indentation in the outside shape of his ear. the man on the right does not.

[Econteachert205]

Originally Posted by mcgwirecom

I was just looking at the photos. The man on the left has and indentation in the outside shape of his ear. the man on the right does not.

Nice catch on the ear. Still would love to see Marlowe dissect too. I learned a ton from his previous works here.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by EVAJOY91

I ask you a question: Joe jackson started the season playing ball for the chicago white sox, . After 17 games he decided to take a less paying job for the us government building battleships that he was under qualified to do so. Would you not call this military service that he was instructed to do? It certainly was not voluntary. I would call this as service for the us military during ww i! Wouldn't you?

No. I would not call that military service. Plenty of people work for companies that have government contracts. Companies like Boeing or Grumman are perfect examples. The people who are employed by these companies work for a PRIVATE company. The only relationship the individual has to the government is that the things they make are sold to it. This is not now, nor has it ever been, considered military service. Joe Jackson worked for a privately owned shipbuilder who sold their products to the US military. That's it. He was never a soldier, so has no reason to be and should not be in a soldier's uniform, especially in a formal photo like this one.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

LOL Huggins and Scott even lists "Bump on chin and nose are a match".

...and none of it is a match. I have a mole on my chin, but that doesn't make my chin a match with someone else who has a mole on theirs.

We have had so many of these "I wish this was [insert famous baseball player name here]" threads that none of it generally surprises me, but the auction houses should know better. I've never understood why the big auction houses don't hire someone like one of us, to simply go over items before they end up in their catalog (online or hard-copy), and throw up a red flag for things like this. It's not just H&S - you see these kind of things from most of the AH's.

[Econteachert205]

Jaw doesn't look close to me.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

...and none of it is a match. I have a mole on my chin, but that doesn't make my chin a match with someone else who has a mole on theirs.

We have had so many of these "I wish this was [insert famous baseball player name here]" threads that none of it generally surprises me, but the auction houses should know better. I've never understood why the big auction houses don't hire someone like one of us, to simply go over items before they end up in their catalog (online or hard-copy), and throw up a red flag for things like this. It's not just H&S - you see these kind of things from most of the AH's.

Agreed.

[Runscott]

Ugghhhh

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

[Dave Grob]

Interesting articles on the influenza epidemic at Camp Meade and the surrounding area at this time. This might provide some context to the significance/purpose of the photo identified as:

“Camp Surgeons Office, Special Examining Board” on December 4, 1918 at Camp Meade, MD."

http://www.influenzaarchive.org/citi...altimore.html#

http://www.flu.gov/pandemic/history/...east/maryland/

http://magazine.jhsph.edu/2004/fall/prologues/

Folks can decide for themselves if this might have been something that either dissuaded or brought Joe Jackson to Camp Meade at this time as they continue to evaluate for themselves if they believe or not he is the same individual identified as such in the photograph.

Dave Grob
Dave Grob1@aol.com

[EVAJOY91]

Another photo used for photo match. This photo is from 1917.
Take a look. Yes, put a top hat like the one jackson is wearing in the panoramic photograph. Exact match!

[EVAJOY91]

Here's another photo of shoeless joe jackson profile. Again, put a top hat exactly like the one joe is wearing in the military panoramic photograph. Same face i see. What i'm trying to show that lots of hours went into this back in july and i'm so surprise no one back then or at the national who looked at this photo expressed disagreement. So little documents were kept back in the early part of the 20th century. The military kept even less. We all are of agreement that jackson was drafted into the military as many other ball players, we all agree that he took a job approved by the government for his induction. This was done for ball players who didn't want to fight, so they went to work. We all are in agreement that jackson played baseball till sept, 1918. Why is it so hard to believe that this famous ball player didn't visit military bases on the east coast which were very close to where his teams toured played and take a photograph with the solders. Ted williams, joe dimaggio and others ball players took photographs with solders while they were in service and many took photos when they visited military bases after their playing careers. Enough said, you don't have to bid ont the photograph but please present much more then what i have been reading today.

[Lordstan]

Oh boy. Here we go. Welcome back Mr Comiskey .

[Lordstan]

Directly,
The reason people get upset is that people, like you, come on here asking for help with their items. When it turns out that the item isn't what they thought it was, they get defensive and keep arguing. Perhaps a better idea might be to say thank you to those who are offering the benefit of the knowledge they have acquired over years of experience.