Need Help Dating Vintage Goldsmith Baseball

[btcarfagno]

I cannot find anything like it. My best guess is WW2 era 1944-1945 but I really don't know for sure.

The cc after "97". Never seen that before on another Goldsmith ball. The patent information below "cushioned cork center". Never seen that before.

I am not sure when Macgregor took over and started stamping these as Macgregor Goldsmith. I believe that was late 1940's but could be wrong. I am also not sure when the 97 changed over to cushioned cork, or if it was always available with cushioned cork or rubber. The earliest cushion cork 97 ball I could find dates to around 1945. Finally, the red lacing. I think the 97 examples that I have seen have red and black alternating lacing through about 1940. Was it available with red only before then?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Tom C

[daves_resale_shop]

Hey Tom, nice looking ball...

I think you are spot on... A few signed Wisconsin league balls hit the market last summer... There was also a ball signed by some players on the Great Lakes naval team including their coach Mickey cochrane whom I beleive led the team from 42-44. They were all 97 league balls.

Hope this helps!
Dave

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

Hey Tom, nice looking ball...

I think you are spot on... A few signed Wisconsin league balls hit the market last summer... There was also a ball signed by some players on the Great Lakes naval team including their coach Mickey cochrane whom I beleive led the team from 42-44. They were all 97 league balls.

Hope this helps!
Dave

Thanks or this Dave.

My research has found the "97 League" balls by Goldsmith through around 1948. After that they became MacGregor Goldsmith, then eventually just MacGregor. I am not certain as to when the "97 League" ball first came to fruition. I believe it to have been greatly used by many minor leagues throughout the Great Depression but am not sure exactly when they came to be. The earliest one with red only lacing that I have found is 1941. But that one had a rubber center.

What I am not sure of is if there may have been different variations of the "97 League" ball. If there was just one version, then I think 1944 or 1945 is pretty accurate. However, if the ball could be ordered in black/red or just red in the same year....or if it was made with either the cushioned cork center or rubber center in the same year...then it all goes out the window and I have no clue how to date this thing.

And that "cc" after the 97. Never seen another with that on there.

Thanks again Dave.

Tom C

[Scott Garner]

Tom,
I believe that you are correct in your assumptions re: this Goldsmith ball.
As you probably are aware, Goldsmith 97 balls first started being produced and used in 1897, hence "97".

I'm quite certain that these balls had multi-colored laces until around the 1940-1941 time period that you mentioned when they switched to red.
The "cc" after the 97 was probably not on their balls prior to 1941 or 1942.

If you look at these two Johnny Vander Meer endorsed Goldsmith balls that I picked up in the last year you can see the multi-colored laces on what I believe is a 1939 ball. The second Goldsmith Vandy ball is from 1940 or later and has red laces.

A 1939 Goldsmith equipment catalogue that I own pictures the 97 ball, but no "cc" or the patent info are present on the stamping, FWIW.

[btcarfagno]

Thanks Scott.

It would be interesting to see an equipment catalog from Goldsmith to see if there are different variations of the 97 ball available in the same year.

Tom C

[khkco4bls]

I think 97 League Baseball started around the turn of the century may be a hair later. Here's my 15, 20s model with box and rare hang tag.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Thanks Scott.

It would be interesting to see an equipment catalog from Goldsmith to see if there are different variations of the 97 ball available in the same year.

Tom C

Tom,
Here is a picture of the No 97 ball ad that appeared in the inner cover of the 1939 Goldsmith equipment catalogue.
Note no mention or photo of the cc following 97, no mention about the patent info and no different model balls offering either red and black or red laced seams in the ball...

[btcarfagno]

That makes a lot of sense Scott.

So, the ball is certainly 1941 or after due to the red lacing. It is pre-1948 (I think) which is when MacGregor stamped their name on the ball as well. I have seen 1944 versions with a rubber center. So I guess it all comes down to when the 97 was moved to a cushioned cork center.

One other item of note...perhaps the cc stands for cushioned cork and was a variation where you could buy the 97 with a rubber center or a cushioned cork center? If this is true, the best date range I can figure is 1941-1948. If the entire line transferred to cushioned cork all at once, the date is likely 1945-1948.

Thanks for your help so far everyone.

Tom C

[khkco4bls]

Here is also an early scorecard with 97 ad