52 Mantle Vs T206 Cobb

[PhillipAbbott79]

If you had to chose an investment card to hold for 5 to 10 years which card would you chose. Let us assume you have 20,000 dollars to spend and you spent it all on one card. The goal would obviously be to pick the card that has the least amount of chance to go down, and the highest up side for profit.

The grades and prices are not an exact science obviously but I hope you can see what is intended by the question.

To re-iterate the concept, the idea is not who you like more or what you collect, but rather what you think is a better investment.

[ullmandds]

personally I'd take the best green t206 cobb I could find over a comparable mantle as a long term investment.

[sterlingfox]

Green Cobb all the way. In fact, I'd choose almost any Cobb/Ruth/Gehrig out there that's currently 20k market value over a 52 Mantle.

There are too many Mantles out there, especially in the lower grades, regardless of its status as the most important post war card in existence.

[Jason]

Green Cobb though it may be possible neither would have been a good investment in 20 years though I believe the Cobb stands a better chance.

[KendallCat]

Mantle all day every day. Does not take away from the Cobb at all, but you are talking the gold standard that transcends baseball and sports cards versus a card most people know nothing about. I think that answers your question right there.

[packs]

I'd rather have the Mantle. It transcends cards whereas the Cobb is just a grail to people who collect cards, and maybe not even really on that level to people who don't collect pre-war. I was able to pick up a very nice T206 Cobb Green graded SGC 20 for technical reasons for $1,600 but I would never be able to pick up the Mantle for that, even a terrible one. That alone signifies where the cards are headed if you ask me.

[58pinson]

In keeping with the spirit of the thread I voted for the Mantle. Under the conditions stated it would be my choice. No knock on Mr. Cobb but the Mantle is a truly iconic piece of Americana, and I hate the word iconic.
That said, if the $20k is an investment vehicle I think laying it all into one card is not diversified enough. My limited 2¢ from the bleachers.

[Rookiemonster]

Mantle is my choice .

He is the better player

More iconic.

It's a topps card.

It's gaining more recognition then the Cobb will ever get.

I'm a Yankees fan.

Some shmucks still think it's his rookie

[gemmint77]

I would go with the Mantle. Already own a nice red T206 Cobb. That Mantle card would hold value better over the years to come. Good luck

[Sean]

I would take the Cobb, but of course I'm a T206 guy.

[rats60]

Cobb was the better player. Mantle is over hyped and overpriced. Cobb will continue to rise. One day the Mantle bubble will burst. As others have said, too many out there, especially in low grades.

[EvilKing00]

i voted cobb - BUT as a real estate broker id strongly advise buying either card over solar panels.

[PhillipAbbott79]

To re-iterate the concept, the idea is not who you like more or what you collect, but rather what you think is a better investment having the highest gains over the given time period.

[Touch'EmAll]

Mantle is in the wheelhouse of the Baby Boomers. They saw him, they were in awe of him, they have the Mantle hype near their whole life. What might happen as the baby boomers pass? Then we are left with collectors who aren't in so close touch with Mantle. He will always be top tier icon/player, but might his "pull" subside? I, for instance, agree Mantle is Big Time. But for my budget, I feel he is overvalued and thus have not put money into his cards. I would rather put my money elsewhere (T206 HOF'ers and the like). Will more people feel the way I do as more time passes? The hype of the crowd frenzy and keep up with the Jones' mentality could continue strong as ever...or not?

[sterlingfox]

+1

My thoughts exactly. Once the baby boomers pass and the Mantle hype subsides, the valuation on the 52T will soon follow suit.

The much harder to find pre-war cards will, on the other hand, continue to rise.

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Mantle is in the wheelhouse of the Baby Boomers. They saw him, they were in awe of him, they have the Mantle hype near their whole life. What might happen as the baby boomers pass? Then we are left with collectors who aren't in so close touch with Mantle. He will always be top tier icon/player, but might his "pull" subside? I, for instance, agree Mantle is Big Time. But for my budget, I feel he is overvalued and thus have not put money into his cards. I would rather put my money elsewhere (T206 HOF'ers and the like). Will more people feel the way I do as more time passes? The hype of the crowd frenzy and keep up with the Jones' mentality could continue strong as ever...or not?

[brian1961]

Why must we bring who was the better player into the discussion? So often that issue is brought up into these threads, and it's rather immature to the reality of why collectors go for particular players.

Some of you pre-war guys seem to be "licking your chops" with glee in anticipation of the advancing age of the Baby Boom generation, when Mickey Mantle cards will finally fulfill your Chicken Little rants.

Some players are timeless. The poll consists of two players---both timeless.

It seems to me you will do well with either one, but personally, I would select the card you would be much less emotionally attached to. So, when the ten-year-mark comes around, you won't bat an eye parting with the piece.

Investing in solar panels seems like a good idea, as long as they do what they're supposed to. What happens if baseball-size hail pummels them? Or even golf ball-sized? In retrospect, if a natural disaster hits, you may need to sell that Mantle or Cobb sooner than you think, if it survives the disaster. Moreover, if you survive the disaster.

Off the subject, am I? Maybe it's a better subject, only for a reality check.

Distill this all away, and it comes back to, "My dog's better than your dog."

At least with Ty and Mick, their legacies are monumental, and doubtless will stand firm. As will Babe Ruth.

There is a problem with some players---few cards, coins, premiums were made of them. Their legacies suffer for it, to a degree. A lot of nice Cobbs were crafted, and more so of Mickey. The poll involves their two finest mainstream card. So what card will do the best, you insist? I don't care. It's just as picking which stock will do the best in the long-term.

For the mean time, it is obvious investing in cards is doing a whole lot better than what any bank is offering.

Keep your cool. Cheers. ---Brian Powell

[packs]

Is the Cobb Green really much harder to find though? It is available any time you wish to buy it from my experience. I don't think the same is true of the Mantle and each time the Mantle comes up for auction it's always a featured lot.

I'd buy the nicest SGC/PSA 2 Mantle I could find and then spend the rest on the nicest Green Cobb I could find (SGC/PSA 3-4). That's if it had to be between just those two cards

[Huysmans]

With respect to a few of the past posters, the only individual that truly transcends baseball as a freestanding American institution is Ruth, and the only card that fits that bill is the Wagner. I've had the "importance of baseball cards" discussion with a number of antique dealers over the years including individuals that specialize in Americana and I can honestly say neither Mantle nor his 52 Topps card has ever been brought up. The stature of Ruth, and of the T206 Wagner.....yes, but Mantle? No, never.

As others have postulated, once the gap is generated between Mantle and his contemporary living collectors in the years to come, the rarity and much smaller available supply of green Cobbs will dominate in both desirability and value.

[oldjudge]

The Mantle is an overhyped card of an overvalued player. I grew up in the Bronx in the 1950-60s (an avid Yankee fan) and saw Mantle play in person a lot. If you had asked 50 Yankee fans during this time who the greatest Yankee center fielder of all time was, 49 would have said DiMaggio. Mantle struck out too much. Even with the Yankee line-up he rarely knocked in 100 runs in a season, and was replaced for defensive purposes in late innings. Bottom line, if these are my two choices I go with the Cobb every time.

[sterlingfox]

Originally Posted by packs

Is the Cobb Green really much harder to find though? It is available any time you wish to buy it from my experience. I don't think the same is true of the Mantle and each time the Mantle comes up for auction it's always a featured lot.

There are about 10x as many 52T Mantles PSA graded 3 vs PSA 6 Green Cobbs.

[packs]

Doesn't it say something about the strength of the cards when one is worth the same as the other in twice the grade?

[PhillipAbbott79]

If the supply and demand ratios are different they could appreciate at different rates. Currently the Cobb is undergoing a ridiculous boom. That doesn't mean in 10 years it will be worth what its max appreciation was along the way. As mentioned in the poll, which is going to be worth at that point in time and why do you think that.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

Is the Cobb Green really much harder to find though? It is available any time you wish to buy it from my experience. I don't think the same is true of the Mantle and each time the Mantle comes up for auction it's always a featured lot.

On ebay there are currently 34 52 Topps Mantles and 8 T206 green Cobbs (only counted graded copies to assure legitimacy).

Between just those two cards I would take the Cobb. As mentioned Mantle (more specifically the 52 Topps Mantle) is over-hyped by good publicity. Three points were used in this publicity that are all myths.
1) He was the best player - Mays can be argued to be better, even if you don't agree the fact that the argument can be made shows they are at least comparable
2) It is his rookie - It isn't. That would be 1951 Bowman. Even if you argue it is his "Topps Rookie" then explain why the 1958 Topps Musial isn't described as such? Even though he too would be considered a better player by people.
3) It is a high number in a popular set - It is a high number, but there is evidence that it was double printed which reverses the "high number" scarcity concept.

At the end of the day it is TOPPS first iconic card. Since they are still in business and the only authorized distributor of Topps cards they keep pushing this card through reprints and other advertising. If MLB does what NBA and NFL did and ever change to Panini (Topps contract is up in 2020) it is possible they will lose this persuasive stature.

Since Cobb should all ready be smoothed out on prices his cards will continue at the same pace all other cards will within the t206 set. I believe it is the safer buy. If you are the riskier buyer Mantle could have the more upside, but you don't want to be the one left holding the bag in the end.

[mickey7mantle7]

Does a vote count towards my post count?

[packs]

I see some people's point on the Mantle as it relates to boomers but I don't see how an even older card of an even older player would surpass a more recent one, if boomer die off is what you're saying will drop the Mantle card's price.

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

With respect to a few of the past posters, the only individual that truly transcends baseball as a freestanding American institution is Ruth, and the only card that fits that bill is the Wagner. I've had the "importance of baseball cards" discussion with a number of antique dealers over the years including individuals that specialize in Americana and I can honestly say neither Mantle nor his 52 Topps card has ever been brought up. The stature of Ruth, and of the T206 Wagner.....yes, but Mantle? No, never.

As others have postulated, once the gap is generated between Mantle and his contemporary living collectors in the years to come, the rarity and much smaller available supply of green Cobbs will dominate in both desirability and value.

completely agree - if im spending 20k or 1k its on a ruth card

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

I see some people's point on the Mantle as it relates to boomers but I don't see how an even older card of an even older player would surpass a more recent one, if boomer die off is what you're saying will drop the Mantle card's price.

It is that there isn't anyone elevating Cobb's prices based on nostalgia, so his prices will be determined by other things (ie interest in t206). If Mantle's prices are elevated by nostalgia then when that dissipates the prices will adjust.

[packs]

That makes sense. Well I hope everyone is right about the Cobb because I don't have the Mantle.

[CW]

Mickey Mantle.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by sterlingfox

+1

My thoughts exactly. Once the baby boomers pass and the Mantle hype subsides, the valuation on the 52T will soon follow suit.

The much harder to find pre-war cards will, on the other hand, continue to rise.

Amd thats when I will scoop them all up MUAHAUHA

neck and neck right now

Id buy the cobb

[KendallCat]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The Mantle is an overhyped card of an overvalued player. I grew up in the Bronx in the 1950-60s (an avid Yankee fan) and saw Mantle play in person a lot. If you had asked 50 Yankee fans during this time who the greatest Yankee center fielder of all time was, 49 would have said DiMaggio. Mantle struck out too much. Even with the Yankee line-up he rarely knocked in 100 runs in a season, and was replaced for defensive purposes in late innings. Bottom line, if these are my two choices I go with the Cobb every time.

Could not disagree more and the hobby and collectors disagree with you as well. Curious as to why you say he was an overhyped player? Joe Namath was an overhyped player for sure. Terry Bradshaw numbers wise as well. What people look at along with stats is wining and doing it on the greatest and largest stage there is - Super Bowl, World Series, Olympics...

Numbers wise Marino smokes about every QB of all time, but when the GOAT conversation comes up the first name you hear is Joe Montana. Why? 4-4 in the Super Bowl.

Not sure why the hate for Mantle but when you win 7 WS titles in 18 seasons and hold WS records for HR's, RBI's, hits, total bases, runs... I think you are doing ok. Biggest stage he was the best. Some are going to argue "well he played in the most WS so of course he has the records." Ruth had 50% more WS at bats yet he does not hold those records.

"Mantle did not have a lot of RBI's." His RBI total of 1500+ is decent, but you have to look at why this was the case. His number of walks was huge as well as his number of runs scored. He led the league in walks and runs scored 5 times as well as OBP 3 times. He also had seasons where he hit 37 and 40 HR's but under 100 RBI's - that means players were not on base when he got up.

One thing that many are not aware of was he was the fastest player in the game despite injuring his knee as a rookie in the WS, and most who saw him play knew how much it took away from his power and speed. Despite playing his entire career with multiple injuries he put up huge numbers. Back then when you injured your ACL there were no surgeries- you played through it. Not to mention nobody could hit a ball back then or now as far as he could and he was only 5'11 and 190 lbs.

"Once the baby boomers die off nobody will want his cards." Just like people collect Ruth and Cobb and Gehrig and never saw them play they still collect them and always will. Paintings 300-400 years old still outsell modern artists by millions and for good reason. "If" the Mantle cards die off the hobby will as well. Without him the hobby would not be near the worth it is today. Mantle still is the highest priced card in every set most years except for a key rookie or two. What does that tell you?

Overhyped and overrated? One can have different opinions, but don't let ones not liking a player turn into baseball history ignorance. People love winners and very few did it better than the Mick.

[Bicem]

Cobb... less overrated card of the two in my opinion.

[donniebaseball]

This is an interesting discussion presented by the OP. We are obviously talking about two heavy hitters in the hobby and for most it will come down to what they like to collect. Scarcity is an important factor when breaking ties.

Here is what the POP report looks like:

#311
2.5 - 48
3 - 167

Green Cobb
5.5 - 3
6 - 17

I would argue that looking strictly at these POP numbers doesn't tell the whole story with the 52T Mantle. How many examples from the 215 Mantles graded here are perfectly centered with a great color/registration combo? My guess would be not many. If we could quantify this the scarcity conversation may change a bit.

To answer the OP's question I would prefer the 52T Mantle. This card fits within what I like to collect and I think it will hold its value well into the future. However, I understand the other side of the argument. Splitting hairs between two cards that shape our hobby.

[Joshchisox08]

Cobbie but my vote is biased. Cobb is my favorite player of all time. The set is my favorite set of all time. And that particular card is one that I "may" own one day........................

[mark evans]

It all seems to me to be a crapshoot. I don't see how anyone can predict future value of any card with any confidence. I think there is at least some chance that the vintage card hobby will take a hit as baby boomers become replaced by kids who grew up on video games. And, not to be cynical, there is always the possibility that general economic conditions will cause a reduction in disposable income as we come to terms with the national debt or for other reasons.

If you enjoy collecting, just buy what you like and can afford.

[iwantitiwinit]

if I had too make a choice I'd take the Cobb and for 3 reasons: 1) if values don't rise I'd rather have the higher quality card 2) while mantle is currently more popular in 20 years I feel he will be less iconic because collectors memories of him playing will wane and that population of those actually having seen him play will shrink dramatically and 3) there are far fewer examples of the Cobb available.

[packs]

How do people feel about the likelihood of a Cobb PSA 6 being trimmed? Does that detract you from the card at all? Would be tough to slip a trimmed Mantle by but I have heard many times that high grade cards from the era are trim suspects at least part of the time. With such a low number of 6's, is that card a candidate in the future?

[bbcard1]

I don't know that I would do either...if you decide to chances are that your dividend is the pride and enjoyment you get from owning the card...so figure out which one you like best.

If you like Mantle, I might go with a 1994 Mantle/Griffey Upper Deck Dual auto...you will have the iconic players for two generations.

[mickey7mantle7]

Cobb for rarity


Mantle because he's my favorite


So...

I'd get a Cobb though because letting it go years down the road for profit will not hold any sentimental value as the Mantle would.


I would then use the profit I've gained on a higher graded 52 Mantle...duh!

[Touch'EmAll]

Also consider eye appeal.

A PSA 2.5 to 3 Mantle is getting near the beater class, and toss in poor centering then the card would have poor eye appeal.

Then a 5.5 to 6 Cobb Green - Wow! could actually be a very nice eye pleasing card exhibiting solid coloring, nice focus, well centered, clean boarders, and high end for the issue status as well.

As far as just nice to look at...the Cobb.

[conor912]

If I was buying a card strictly for investment, it would be Ruth, all day every day. He is king....hands down.

The argument that Mantle prices will drop once baby boomers die off is silly. One could easily have made the same argument for all the pre-war players, but look where we are.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Strictly investment. That is the conversation. Prediction is not required. It is a guess with reasoning. I am curious to hear the reasoning behind your guess given this exact choice, and only this choice, with only this motivation.

Ruth is not on the discussion block and not an option in the poll. It is not about the player. Only about the card.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

Strictly investment. That is the conversation. Prediction is not required. It is a guess with reasoning. I am curious to hear the reasoning behind your guess given this exact choice, and only this choice, with only this motivation.

Ruth is not on the discussion block and not an option in the poll. It is not about the player. Only about the card.

Geez relax. Also, sorry to inform you but prediction is required...To invest is to allocate money (or sometimes another resource, such as time) in the expectation of some benefit in the future.

[camlov2]

I am going to be that one guy who picks solar panels. Over time you should be able to get your money back and buy one of the cards anyway, right?

[clydepepper]

I voted for the Cobb for two reasons:

First, I try not to purchase cards with grades less than EX

Secondly, the '52 Mantle is WAY overpriced!

[ty_cobb]

Your cost is always jacked for Topps 52, so you have to pay more up front, in my mind. Your return is mitigated by upfront cost. Also T206 collectors, collect different ways. They will do HOF subsets, or team subsets , or you can just pick the 4 poses. There will always be demand for the Cobb.

[KendallCat]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Also consider eye appeal.

A PSA 2.5 to 3 Mantle is getting near the beater class, and toss in poor centering then the card would have poor eye appeal.

Then a 5.5 to 6 Cobb Green - Wow! could actually be a very nice eye pleasing card exhibiting solid coloring, nice focus, well centered, clean boarders, and high end for the issue status as well.

As far as just nice to look at...the Cobb.

Not all PSA 2.5/3 Mantles are beater class. With the Mantle centering is key and maybe 10% have decent centering and eye appeal. Tons of 5's-7's with 75/25 centering which makes the card not very attractive. BTW - I would prefer my PSA 3 beater over any Cobb 5/6.

[ty_cobb]

you have a very nice Mantle. undergraded. something to hold on to

[MVSNYC]

Interesting topic. I have been a "T206 guy" for 25 years, and have owned some pretty cool cards. I've toiled with this very question, the one posed by the OP. Last year I decided to "branch-out" and invest in one (killer) card. I chose a clean, centered 52 Topps Mantle, a grade slightly higher than the OP mentioned. I'm very happy with it. It's incredibly iconic and gives you the chills when holding it. I would LOVE a nice Green Cobb (as I'm a big T206 collector), but, at the end of the day...a 52 Mantle, is a 52 Mantle.