A guy walks into a card show...

[SAllen2556]

I live near Detroit and there are 2 monthly shows in the area that have been around a long time. I try to hit each one once or twice a year. Each show has at least 50 tables. Of the 50 tables I'm lucky to find 2 with anything pre-war, and even then it ain't much. The dealers at these shows are not young men, yet when I ask about Goudey or tobacco/caramel cards they look at me like I'm from another planet. 1960 Topps, no problem.

Is this is common in other parts of the country? Is the demand for really old stuff so low that it just isn't worth it for these dealers? Does the pre-war crowd just not stoop so low as to attend or set up at a show anymore?!

I just find it hard to believe in Detroit (once the hotbed of card shows in the whole country) that you can't walk into a show and find anything with Charlie Gehringer, Hank Greenberg or Ty Cobb. Or maybe the pre-war collectors are all in wheel chairs and don't get around so well anymore. I dunno.

I like card shows; you can see what you're buying and negotiate face to face. With all the "investors" out there it just seems like there'd be more old stuff at shows.

[Griffins]

We haven't had a dedicated card show in SoCal in years- a few friends and I did 3 small ones a few years ago, but costs were way way too high, and the Long Beach coin show has a few tables of cards, but other than that nothing since '08 when the Hollywood Park show folded up.
I guess I'd be happy for any show, vintage or not. Ebay is a 24/7 show that is tough to compete with.

[aad0906]

The show in Chantilly (VA) had a few dealers with E and T cards, picked up 2 nice E-98 cards for a decent price.

[Leon]

I took moderator privileges and copied this from the correct water cooler section sub forum. It is an interesting conversation for some of us, as when I set up this last weekend at a local show there were almost no pre-war cards being sold except the few in my cases. Rich K was there (hey Rich) and he tried hard to persuade me to buy a lot of 5 T206 cards.....though, actually if all of them were put together there would probably only be about 4.5 cards being sold. They are collector grade. At some local shows there is a little more pre-war but not much. I don't know why more people don't set up at shows. It's fun, cheap and you can make a few bucks. I sold around 1k this last weekend which I wouldn't have sold at home. Though I guess the argument could be made that if I were to put 6? hours into selling them from my domicile I could have done better, except there is no human interaction when doing it at home.

.

[Cozumeleno]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

Is this is common in other parts of the country? Is the demand for really old stuff so low that it just isn't worth it for these dealers? Does the pre-war crowd just not stoop so low as to attend or set up at a show anymore?!

It is common where I live (PA). I came that realization this year when I went to the first couple card shows I had been to in probably a decade.

None were large, so that should be taken into account. But one in a mall with maybe ten dealers had zero pre-war cards at all. One guy had a T205 common he said, but it was buried in his stuff and he had no idea where it was. A second I went to a few weeks ago had about 20 dealers, but only one had any pre-war stuff. And even in that case, it was a handful of commons. A few of the looks when I inquired about them were priceless.

Like i said, both were very small and the bigger shows will have a better selection. But I wrote a post a while back about how hard it is to find cards not on the internet. I have crazy respect for set collectors of pre-war cards from the pre-internet days.

[Jobu]

There are several shows in the Milwaukee area but I don't go to them too frequently because there will usually be 10-50 Goudeys and 10-15 cards that came before Goudey. I still go periodically because it is an enjoyable few hours but I almost never buy anything other than supplies.

[Snapolit1]

I've driven to two smallish shows recently near me in NJ and there was very little prewar stuff. One of the shows I walked through and left in 10 minutes. Lots of shiny stuff and one dollar boxes. Not my scene. I realize that few people who hit the smaller shows are there to drop $2500 on a Goudey or a rare photograph so maybe it doesn't make much sense for those dealers to be there. Great to see the diversity of what people collect but I've limited myself to larger shows for precisely this reason. If I go to the White Plains NY show I know there will be some interesting 1900-1940 stuff there.

[Leon]

But the guy that bought my Ruth notebook cover, which I thought was a good buy at $750, wouldn't have gotten a great piece with that attitude. I don't necessarily blame you though .... I think it comes down to a poop to equity ratio for me. If a small card show is within 30 minutes of me I it's not much risk going to it. If I drive 2 hours one way, that is another story. Everyone has their own ratio....

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I've driven to two smallish shows recently near me in NJ and there was very little prewar stuff. One of the shows I walked through and left in 10 minutes. Lots of shiny stuff and one dollar boxes. Not my scene. I realize that few people who hit the smaller shows are there to drop $2500 on a Goudey or a rare photograph so maybe it doesn't make much sense for those dealers to be there. Great to see the diversity of what people collect but I've limited myself to larger shows for precisely this reason. If I go to the White Plains NY show I know there will be some interesting 1900-1940 stuff there.

[Kawika]

The WSSCA shows in Seattle are about as perfect of a local show as you could wish for. Probably around forty tables (never counted 'em) and a rich mix of vintage and modern with a strong emphasis on Pacific Northwest stuff. You'll meet up with a lot of folks from this board for some hobby talk story and there will be some cardboard gurus thrown in for good measure. The trip is worth it just to sit at Mark Macrae's feet as he recounts the thrilling days of yesteryear or to delight in the bon mots of the witty and urbane Mr Cycleback. I always come away with cool Zeenuts from Andrew Jerome and great postcards from Scott Forrest. It's only seventy-five miles from my home in Victoria but entails a ferry ride and a border crossing which means a six-hour trip and a night in a motel so I don't always go but am always glad when I do. (Where is Barry Sloate to edit this mess?)

[jbsports33]

The local shows here in MA are decent, not as many - but have really started to move towards modern and autographs/quests. The larger shows in the Northeast have a good selection - you just need to ask around more these days!

Good luck!

Jimmy

[mechanicalman]

I live in Western Michigan, and there is a mall that hosts a show about once a month. There's one guy who has some pre-war, but he sometimes leaves it at home as there appears to be little demand for it locally. When it comes to the local show scene, I wonder if the absence of pre-war is driven more by a lack of supply or demand. Just not enough passionate dudes like us I guess.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Kawika

The WSSCA shows in Seattle are about as perfect of a local show as you could wish for. Probably around forty tables (never counted 'em) and a rich mix of vintage and modern with a strong emphasis on Pacific Northwest stuff. You'll meet up with a lot of folks from this board for some hobby talk story and there will be some cardboard gurus thrown in for good measure. The trip is worth it just to sit at Mark Macrae's feet as he recounts the thrilling days of yesteryear or to delight in the bon mots of the witty and urbane Mr Cycleback. I always come away with cool Zeenuts from Andrew Jerome and great postcards from Scott Forrest. It's only seventy-five miles from my home in Victoria but entails a ferry ride and a border crossing which means a six-hour trip and a night in a motel so I don't always go but am always glad when I do. (Where is Barry Sloate to edit this mess?)

Alive and well.

[bbcard1]

I usually go to the Chantilly show. It's hard to find the sweet spot of dealers with cards that are in a good price range, but it's about the best going and I usually find something. I'll probably be attending the Moeller show this weekend. While quality of cards can be spotty, for a few hours it's as close to a 1980s style show in terms of action as you will ever find.

At one time (early to mid 80s) I was a very successful show promoter unless you count the fact than I never made a profit on my shows. I am sometimes tempted to take another swing at it. Maybe someday.

[BruceinGa]

Originally Posted by Leon

They are collector grade. .

Leon, Do you mean collector grade as opposed to investor grade? Do you think slabbed cards are investor grade or only those that are of high grade, slabbed or not?
I'm just trying to get a handle on this.
Thanks.

[darkhorse9]

I went to the Chicago show over the weekend. Every time I go the show gets smaller and smaller, despite the fact that they do a real good job of getting high quality autograph guests in.

Most of the vintage stuff is really dwindling. The pre-war stuff is becoming limited to the major dealers (i.e. 707 and the likes) and is almost always high graded stuff with equally high price tags. Finding any good buys on raw pre-war stuff is impossible.

The only reason I go to shows any more is when I plan on buying a large amount of commons (my goal this weekend was 1949 Bowman). I save the stars and higher priced cards for buying on ebay.

[BruceinGa]

The local show here advertises 40 tables with 13 dealers. I haven't been in quite a while but at that time a couple of dealers had an assortment of T205's and 6's.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Griffins

We haven't had a dedicated card show in SoCal in years- a few friends and I did 3 small ones a few years ago, but costs were way way too high, and the Long Beach coin show has a few tables of cards, but other than that nothing since '08 when the Hollywood Park show folded up.
I guess I'd be happy for any show, vintage or not. Ebay is a 24/7 show that is tough to compete with.

Yeah, that was a tough nut to crack. People will come to shows with a vintage focus and the dealers were mostly happy with our shows, but in this day and age I am convinced that the vintage collector crowd is quite distinct from the current player autograph crowd. The show needs to be a non-autograph show where the dealers take an active role in bringing their customer base into the show. The days of renting a gym and setting up and being stormed with crowds who find a Beckett classified listing are over. Even the National has dead hours and distinct zones of little interest to collectors of vintage material.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

My show, for a small show, had a lot of pre war. Glen Mechannick had amazing stuff, museum worthy. My partner Aad had a very nice selection of T and E cards. I had my usual smattering of tobacco and caramel as well as a selection of Goudeys and Play Balls. I didn't get a chance to see what Glyn Parson brought, but I know he's loaded in great prewar, and Dave Czuba definitely had some as well. Those were the guys who were located close to me, I didn't get a chance to walk around much. For a show with 30 booths I thought we had some amazing stuff.

[Tony Gordon]

From a dealer standpoint, I find it very difficult to acquire pre-war cards at a price where I can make any kind of profit. Post-war, on the other hand, is plentiful at tremendous prices. In addition, the demand for post-war is tenfold when compared to pre-war at the small local shows I attend. My suggestion for pre-war collectors is to set up at your local show with your duplicates and try and generate a local interest. I find it troubling when collectors talk about small shows as some sort of other-worldly corporate entity when these shows are put on by regular folks, your friends and neighbors, with a passion for the hobby and are best served when considered a community. In my opinion, your local card show is your community and it is up to you, both dealers and collectors, to shape it into the form you like.

[Snapolit1]

Tony - thoughtful post, and I don't disagree. I think the problem is for prewar collectors eBay and the major AHs have sort of cornered the entire market. When I see a prewar card at your typical small show, it is usually grossly overpriced. The old "1500/750" canard. Often times I discreetly walk away and ring up the same card on eBay and see I can get it for $400. I could set up a table at my local show tomorrow and would be assured I'd have many nice conversations and few if any sales. Most of the time these are just different markets with different consumers. Not always but most of the time. Doesn't, of course, make one better or superior, just the reality of different strokes for different folks.
It could happen, but I don't go to a small show thinking I will get a great opportunity on a nice prewar card. Most of the time I buy something to support the cause, but it's not something I've even that excited about.

[esd10]

The show at the now torn down vets memorial had some nice vintage from baggers sports cards but very expensive and a few other pre war dealers. Most of the time at these shows around me is just a bunch of newer swatches/autos and boxes of over priced in my opinion junk but every once in a while you will find a deal on vintage.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

From a dealer standpoint, I find it very difficult to acquire pre-war cards at a price where I can make any kind of profit. Post-war, on the other hand, is plentiful at tremendous prices. In addition, the demand for post-war is tenfold when compared to pre-war at the small local shows I attend. My suggestion for pre-war collectors is to set up at your local show with your duplicates and try and generate a local interest. I find it troubling when collectors talk about small shows as some sort of other-worldly corporate entity when these shows are put on by regular folks, your friends and neighbors, with a passion for the hobby and are best served when considered a community. In my opinion, your local card show is your community and it is up to you, both dealers and collectors, to shape it into the form you like.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Tony - thoughtful post, and I don't disagree. I think the problem is for prewar collectors eBay and the major AHs have sort of cornered the entire market. When I see a prewar card at your typical small show, it is usually grossly overpriced. The old "1500/750" canard. Often times I discreetly walk away and ring up the same card on eBay and see I can get it for $400. I could set up a table at my local show tomorrow and would be assured I'd have many nice conversations and few if any sales. Most of the time these are just different markets with different consumers. Not always but most of the time. Doesn't, of course, make one better or superior, just the reality of different strokes for different folks.
It could happen, but I don't go to a small show thinking I will get a great opportunity on a nice prewar card. Most of the time I buy something to support the cause, but it's not something I've even that excited about.

Now I actually do disagree somewhat. My inventory lists for the same price live and online for the most part, and I accept offers in both locations. I do sell more pre-war stuff on ebay, but I sell more of EVERYTHING on ebay. I sold a '33 Goudey Travis Jackson to a board member at my show as well as a few T206 and T205 out of my $10 and $20 bargain boxes. I do know what you guys are talking about as I have seen dealers who are insanely overpriced, but there are definitely reasonable pre-war live dealers.

[Jobu]

Regarding my post about the lack of vintage at shows in the Milwaukee area, I can say that most of what is there is in Tony's casees - first booth across from the door at Gonzaga Hall! I appreciate your effort to have some stuff in stock.

I have devised a new way to start building interest - when I find good deals on T205 and T206 I am picking them up on the cheap and plan to give them to kids at the 2 or 3 local shows that I attend in Milwaukee each year. I remember being floored by my first two T206 (Newt Randall and Bergen batting) and I had to pay for those - I could not take my eyes off of them as my dad drove me home from the two shows where I got them. Hopefully I can do the same thing for a few youngsters. Last year a board member posted a few free Exhibits on the BST and I claimed the Spahn and gave it to a kid at a show who clearly thought it was cool (and the smile from his dad really made it worth it).

I would call on everyone here to do the same. If you have some $10-$15 common pre-war cards, try to give 1 or 2 away to kids when you attend shows.

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

From a dealer standpoint, I find it very difficult to acquire pre-war cards at a price where I can make any kind of profit. Post-war, on the other hand, is plentiful at tremendous prices. In addition, the demand for post-war is tenfold when compared to pre-war at the small local shows I attend. My suggestion for pre-war collectors is to set up at your local show with your duplicates and try and generate a local interest. I find it troubling when collectors talk about small shows as some sort of other-worldly corporate entity when these shows are put on by regular folks, your friends and neighbors, with a passion for the hobby and are best served when considered a community. In my opinion, your local card show is your community and it is up to you, both dealers and collectors, to shape it into the form you like.

[horzverti]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

From a dealer standpoint, I find it very difficult to acquire pre-war cards at a price where I can make any kind of profit. Post-war, on the other hand, is plentiful at tremendous prices. In addition, the demand for post-war is tenfold when compared to pre-war at the small local shows I attend. My suggestion for pre-war collectors is to set up at your local show with your duplicates and try and generate a local interest. I find it troubling when collectors talk about small shows as some sort of other-worldly corporate entity when these shows are put on by regular folks, your friends and neighbors, with a passion for the hobby and are best served when considered a community. In my opinion, your local card show is your community and it is up to you, both dealers and collectors, to shape it into the form you like.

Well written Tony. I attend a several shows throughout the year in the Milwaukee area. I know that I am a grown man, but I still get excited when I arrive at a show. Every single time. I have felt this way since I was 10. I agree that these shows are our collecting community. I appreciate the work that goes into producing them on a regular basis. The annual National show is great, but the opportunity to head to Gonzaga, Clarion or Serb Hall monthly is awesome. The Wisconsin and Illinois collectors know what I am talking about. Thanks Tony.

[BradH]

Originally Posted by BruceinGa

The local show here advertises 40 tables with 13 dealers. I haven't been in quite a while but at that time a couple of dealers had an assortment of T205's and 6's.

Bruce - I'm guessing you're referring to the "East Cobb Sports Collectibles Show" in Marietta. It's a nice show and is apparently having enough success that it's now held twice a month. I think the next show is Dec. 4. It had more than 50 tables the last time I went. Most of it is 50s-60s cards or newer stuff/autographs, but there is a decent amount of pre-war.

I don't go every time - maybe once every couple months - but I went to the Nov. 6 show and it was good. I purchased five t206s, a couple '33 DeLongs, four 1951 Bowman high #s ... And a 1950s Davy Crokett serving tray (no idea why, but it was cool and I thought it'd look great on my son's shelf).

This was not unusual for this show. The material is there, although some of it is a tad overpriced. Some of it is also a bargain, in my opinion. I slightly overpaid on the '51 Bowmans, but they were cards I needed and my patience is waning with this set.

[glynparson]

I am generally expensive online and in person on tougher or high grade material. I am pretty easy to work with on more common and low grade cards.

[Prince Hal]

We have a decent show in the Albany NY area with several dealers that have pre-war material. Much of it is pretty pricey even compared to eBay BIN. The pre-war inventory for most of the dealers seems to appear show after show so I guess they are willing to hold out for their price. This is one of the reasons I started a 1953 bowman color set. I usually can find a few decent cards at a reasonable price each show. I will say that the few times I have traded pre-war cards I have gotten good value back.

[gemmint77]

I set up at a local monthly show here in San Antonio, usually only myself and one other guy has vintage. Its a small show 25-30 tables max. I do well selling some T206 or 33 Goudey's.

[BruceinGa]

Originally Posted by BradH

Bruce - I'm guessing you're referring to the "East Cobb Sports Collectibles Show" in Marietta. It's a nice show and is apparently having enough success that it's now held twice a month. I think the next show is Dec. 4. It had more than 50 tables the last time I went. Most of it is 50s-60s cards or newer stuff/autographs, but there is a decent amount of pre-war.

Yes Brad, that's the one. I haven't been in a year or so. As a matter of fact I haven't been on this board for quite some time also.