Why Aren't More Higher Grades Posted?

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

It is utterly absurd to equate what is said here about baseball cards with terrorists or Nazis. You should be ashamed to make such analogies.

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Posted By: Anonymous

geeesh...i only expect insults like that from Jay.

and to answer your question..not really...

...had a few stiff Julips today

but after reading the crap you have been spewing here..one might wonder what are you on to believe the collectors here are jealous of your psa 8 accumulations??

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Dave,

Hate to stretch your brain but was not referring to myself with the jealousy remark.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Jim.

we all know anything you have ever posted on a chat board IS all about you.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

As for the rest of this thread, I do think there is an unwarranted, reverse-snobbery type of backlash against high grade collectors that I have seen time and again and that seems unwarranted to me. I haven't counted up the posts but it seems to me when high grade collectors like Jim C. post they get scorn heaped on them a lot more than high grade collectors heap scorn on the guys who collect lower grade, either as a result of economic circumstances or maybe even choice.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Not so--can give you evidence but presume it won't matter.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Thanks Peter. You and many other vintage graded card collectors who won't post here

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

"I haven't counted up the posts but it seems to me when high grade collectors like Jim C. post they get scorn heaped on them a lot more than high grade collectors heap scorn on the guys who collect lower grade, either as a result of economic circumstances or maybe even choice."

I think Peter has hit the nail right on the head here. Does Jim have a target painted on his back?


Frank

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Posted By: E, Daniel

How exactly did this become a "woe is Jim" thread?
I thought this was about Bruce's attempt to bring to the board's attention a recent book on the hobby.
It definitely has gotten boring and conspiratorial, and dare I say a little paranoid.

Lets talk cards, anyone?

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I find it very amusing that when high grade (aka "deep pocket", "fat wallet" or "just plain rich") collectors get blasted it is assumed by some that the people that post "not so nice" comments are jealous. Perhaps this is the reason in some instances but in this case I think people are just annoyed by the "virtual attitude" (very pompous in nature) that is displayed. Why would you want to publicize that you chewed someone down in price on a card and then sold it for far more than was payed for it a short time later?

I truly enjoy viewing the pictures/scans that people post. Whether the card is a beater or a high grade gem it's all the same. The appreciation factor is there.

Bruce, maybe you're just misread or don't realize the way you come off. Message boards are that way. Perhaps you don't understand the cross section of readers here: The spectrum ranges from those of us that buy beaters for our own reasons (and yes, in many cases there are financial restrictions involved) to those that can splurge the equivalent of a few years salaries (for some of us) in one auction. That's what makes this forum special. For the most part I believe that most of the "very fortunate" collectors that participate in this forum understand this dynamic and don't exude a pompous or ignorant attitude when they put their fingers to the keyboard.

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Posted By: James Feagin

Game. Set. Match.

Godwin's Law has been invoked, click on the link to learn more....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

If I were jealous of someone's wealth, wouldn't that imply I was jealous of ALL wealthy collector's? Why is it then that we sing the admiration of Hal Lewis, a wealthy collector with the means to get "the finest specimans"? The last poster nailed it, Bruce, Jim and King got this one wrong. Anyway, with Godwin's Law, the thread is now officially won and lost.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I think Leon needs to follow the old USENET rule, Godwin's Rule, where any thread is officiall killed when someone invokes Nazis or Hitler. With todays current situation adding Muslims and terrorists would also fit the criteria.

Jim cracks me up. He accuses me of name calling, but then goes and insinuates that Dave is drunk.

Pot...Kettle...Black...mean anything to ya?

And no Jim, I am not jealous of your's, Bruce's or anyone else's collection.

Time to kill this thread.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

Oh that's too good, James!

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Posted By: JimCrandell

It became a "woe is Jim" thread when Jay started attacking me out of the blue(nothing new for him) to make up for his own insecurities. Two of my friends came to my defence.

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Posted By: jay behrens

So, Dr Jim, just what are these insecurities you speak of?

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Jay.
i think Mr Dorskind and "highroad" Jim are insecure because when they grace us with their presence here on net 54 and "show-off" a T06 or maybe a Cracker Jack in psa 8 or 9 or whatever..nobody gives them their proper accolades....yet when a truly rare card in lower condition is shared...the collectors here that know their vintage cards are impressed and make a big deal out of it.

edited to add:
if we had all just been a bit more impressed with Mr Dorskind's post on the b/s/t thread:

1919 T213 Coupon Cig. Gabby Street CATCHING PSA 8 NM-MT

Item=8802648462

maybe all this "you're a nazi, terrorist or drunk" stuff could have been averted.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Dave,

Yeah that must be it especially when I have never shown a card on this board--brilliant.

Jay,

we'll save that for another day when you ambush me again with one of your personal attacks.

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Posted By: Anonymous

well thanks for sharing Jim.

happy hunting and good luck to you.

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Posted By: jay behrens

awww, come on Dr Jim, tell us all what my insecurities are. The board is dying to know and I'd love to know too. Then again, we can only hope you'll take that high raod you spoke of and never write anything here again since it's never anything constructive.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I cannot recall seeing any eyepopping cards posted by the people we are all supposed to be jealous of. Just a lot of blather. How about showing us rubes some of those high grade cards we should all be drooling over?

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Posted By: Steve M.

Bye

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

I am not sure if the folks that Bruce buys cards for will permit him to even show scans.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Adam, I think Dr Jim feels insecure about his collection now that we get see cards from Marshall on a fairly regualr basis now.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: BcD

will you and lee be "bunkies" at The National?

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Posted By: Misunderestimated

Since I read through this "Moby Dick" threads, I felt I should post something...

While I do think Bruce asked a valid question at the outset, my sense is that the manner in which it was asked could have been a tad less provocative....

I think people don't post some the cards Bruce would like to see and perhaps buy for the reason that they would just assume keep the really valuable stuff they own a bit more private-- I think someone, I think Adam W., pointed this out about 40 or 50 posts ago.

The other thing that's kind of interesting is that the more combative threads like this (unfortunately, I guess) bring out the simmering disdain certain posters have for one another. Of course this is often what keeps us reading (probably for more or less the same reason we often are inexorably drawn to car crashes in NASCAR highlights).

Anyway I will say that the cards I like to see posted are generally cards I don't see too often -- or have Never seen -- that are presentable and the higher graded cards are certainly impressive but in a scan posted I can't really appreciate the difference between an "8" and a "9" --except by appreciating the plastic that they are housed in. Sure, I would prefer that they be nice specimens -- especially if I'm going to own them.

With respect to the Buy, Sell Trade thread, this isn't generally the best place to Buy or Sell high priced cards that are valuable largely because they are the "highest graded." I know that when I have such a card I am considering selling I have learned that it really isn't the place to get big money (which I have no problem with, btw).

Lastly, while I generally abhor censorship, since this isn't a congressional debate -- although it bears some errie resemblance at times --I would generally be in favor of pulling the plug once Nazi comparisions surface (someone also said this about 10-15 posts ago)

A

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Posted By: cmoking

excellent post!

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

Despite Mr. Schwartz's comment, all the cards that I have
purchased were for my own private collection.

In fact, I have sold cards months after purchasing them, when I had
a chance to upgrade (from PSA 5 to PSA 7). And I was happy to earn
a substantial profit in the process.

It should be noted that I did mention, as part of a series of
private e-mails, that in one auction I worked with a partner.

The partner in question has been a hobbyist for 20 years.
He has a world class collection of super high grade rare
cards. He and I both needed cards from the lot in question.

For the record, I don't work for anyone, nor do I ever purchase
cards for any other collector or any dealer

Best,


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: Anonymous

well... Mr Idontdonothinglessthannearmint "we" are impressed nonetheless...manga degress notwithstanding.

rock on you cazy diamond.

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Posted By: BcD

"It is our intent"

. " In 30 years in the hobby, we have never published a want list
in any of our advertising on Old Cardboard or SCD or on the web which "


"We were never been offered any PSA 7 Plows Candy cards."


"If we are so difficult to deal with"

"Since 80% of my acquisitions this
year have been through major auctions and/or via E Bay and several
acquired in partnership with a colleague"

(note~"several" with partner-NOT one as stated above)

and the very name of your company??? Dorskin "Group"


Definitions of group :

* any number of entities (members) considered as a unit
* (chemistry) two or more atoms bound together as a single unit and forming part of a molecule
* form a group or group together


bottom lin-you have been accussed of buying cards for others,we,and us**

simply post scans of the cards you claim to own and validate this~

((((( In this life one thing counts...in the bank large amounts ))))

another of your brilliant quotes......show ME the money!

not (us,we or our**)

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Did you notice that not only did he upgrade from a PSA 5 to PSA 7 he made a substantial profit. I guess that is an in your face comment to the seller of the PSA 5. You wonder where we get the impression that you are just shoving it in all our faces except Jim's.

I do not need another brother one is too many to handle, maybe I can trade him in for a PSA 8 brother.

I also have the world's toughest want list but I can't do much about it.

If I proclaim I am a reincarnation of Gandhi do I automatically win this debate over the Nazi's and terrorism? Nice job on that one.

Jim, I personally would love to see scans of your collection. Feel free to email them to me at anytime.

Lee

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Posted By: BcD

The Plows Candy....... let's see the PSA 7 Harry Davis "replacement" ????
of the PSA 5 I sold you through Andrew!.

HARRY DAVIS 0 0 1 0 0 0 1

problem is,there has only been ONE graded! The 5 I sold you!

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Lee,

I don't know how to scan. You have probably seen all the cards I have and they would just draw ridicule from the other Behrens.

I have roughly 700-800 psa 8 and better cards prewar and am a set collector in 8 or better. I am attempting to collect all sets, all sports 1948-1970 psa 8 and better.

I am having a collectors party at my north Jersey house in June where my collection will be on display where you are welcome to come as well as those from this board who have expressed interest in the past.

Jim

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Lee, since Jay is at best a PSA 4 with an OC qualifier, you'd have to put in a lot of resources to upgrade him to an 8.

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

To My Fellow Board Members-


I thought that it was appropriate to clear the air with regard
to Mr.Brian Daniels' comments on our two transactions..


1. Yes there is only one Harry Davis (PSA 5). I purchased one of the 19
Plows Candy Cards graded 7 by PSA. At no time, did
I indicate that I acquired another Harry Davis Plows Card.


2. Mr. Daniels lied (according to his e mails) when he
sold me a PSA 8 E-94 in July 2005

Quotes from your Mr. Daniels' emails

1. July 4, 2005

My offer

----Original Message-----
From: B.Dorskind [bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com]
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 9:36 AM
To: cardknowledge@earthlink.net
Subject: E-94

Would you sell for $1500- money in your bank tomorrow?

YOUR RESPONSE
sorry bruce, I paid $1650 for it in trade. Do you have anything vintage to
trade? This really is the nicest example known. thanks

-May 6, 2006 (note his spelling error in the word Your)

Parks sells MY cards *******. Your so dumb as a mail room clerk you
would think you would have figured that out.

I sold you an E-94 of a common in an 8 holder for 6 times what I paid for it.


Whilst I am aware that there are Board members on both sides of this
battle, my feelings are the truth alwayswins.

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Posted By: John S

This has become absurd. There are certain personality types that take themselves too seriously no matter what they do. And there are those that attempt, especially in the relatively safe social haven of the internet, to iniate conflict knowing that the consequences will be minimal. Condescending behavior is directly related to insecurity. The greed is also sickening. My responses and the responses of others in this thread are in reaction to some very thinnly veiled statements that have social implications that go beyond the limits of simple baseball card collecting. Please re-read your comments. A simple apology would probably go a long way. I do not wake up in the middle of the night damning collectors of high grade examples. I would have to assume that most of the others on this board have similar feelings. There is no need to turn things around at this point and play the victim. If you are into collecting for the wrong reasons maybe it is time to sell and find something that satisfies your competitive urge. I enjoy collecting and collaborating with fellow collectors as a way to blow off steam and enjoy myself. They're just baseball cards.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Jeff, now that's funny, although I perfer to think I'm a I'm lower grade than a 4. The OC note is priceless.

Jim, as has been pointed out to me and confirmed by another SAG member I know, Reagan wasn't a good president and an even worse SAG president.

I just wish people could see the private emails that are flying back and forth on this subject. You think Bruce looks bad here, you should see what's in those private emails. Jus to confirm what BcD has said, never once has Bruce ever refered to himself in the singular. It has always been "we, our, etc". He doesn't even refered to himself in the 3rd person like Oil Can Boyd. It makes you wonder just what he really owns, if anything.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Josh K.

I disagree with those above who have expressed views that the board tends to attack anyone with money who can afford nice cards (I think Peter was the first to raise this issue). First, Peter, I dont often see your posts attacked and, if Im not mistaken, you prefer high grade material. Same is true of other board members who are either wealthy, collect high grade material, or both (I might be making some assumptions here, but Frank E. adn Hal come to mind as two examples). The problem as I see it with Jim's posts and now Bruce is strictly in the manner in which they communicate to others. Nazi's - good grief. How much larger of an insult can you toss.

For the sake of full disclosure, I dont collect ultra high grade prewar cards. While I like looking at them, certainly appreciate them, and would gladly accept one if anyone wanted to make a donation, I dont feel they justify the money when I can find cards with great images in lower grades.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Josh,

I am only attacked by one person(used to be two but the other seems to have left). Rest of the board is fine. I like it when people disagree--just don't liked to be attacked by the same person.

Jim

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

"....collect high grade material, or both (I might be making some assumptions here, but Frank E. and Hal come to mind as two examples"

Josh, I am honored that you consider me in that category! I wish it was true.

Frank

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Posted By: Misunderestimated

..personal insults are another.
I realize the rest of the world tends to conflate the two but should try to avoid it.

The economics thing is kind of stupid, too. Many of the people who post on the Board are doing quite well. Its more a matter of communication and being attentive to your audience.

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Posted By: 16 oz. Scott

"There's really no big difference between the minors and the majors. In the minors, I drank a six-pack before the game; in the majors, I drank a six-pack after the game"

-- Oil Can Boyd

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Posted By: BcD

I suggest that you don't count other people's money.


While a few may have the GNP people of Africa, there are vast
numbers who have the education and class of the naked natives
in the darkest jungles.


I don't care about rapport with a bunch of inarticulate cry babies.


It certainly doesn't help them in Lifson or Masto or life for that matter.


Let's keep our discussions limited to the question at hand which is
about inventory not opinions of people.




Bruce

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Posted By: Cobby33

This has once again reached the apex of absurdity.

No wonder people think that we card collectors are tools. Sheesh.


edited to say Cobby was responding to the post I just deleted...sorry...(L)

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Posted By: leon

Let's get back to collecting cards. Everyone had a chance to speak their mind. There will be other days....Just trying to keep some sanity around here.....(I did delete another post just now that pretty much nailed this thread) best regards ...moderator dude