e92 Dockman & Sons

[RCMcKenzie]

The back says "50 Base Ball Players", but the set is only known to have 40 subjects. Here are a two examples from the set...

[wnp22]

Is the 40 a pretty solid number, or is it believed that there's still 10 undiscovered players out there? Either way, great cards. Really like that Doyle!

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by wnp22

Is the 40 a pretty solid number, or is it believed that there's still 10 undiscovered players out there? Either way, great cards. Really like that Doyle!

Thanks, yeah, the Doyle artwork for this card is cool. I'm working on a back run on it. It also shows up on the T216's..

For some reason, the production must have stopped at 40 cards. Some have suggested that it was to keep only the players that were more regional, excluding Cobb etc...Although Dockman's are not considered rare, I would say that any subject you find is as rare as a T206 Wagner or Plank. e92's are just much less popular.

[brianp-beme]

The E92 Dockman checklist has been set at 40 for decades and it would be huge hobby news if any other subjects would show up now.

I have to disagree about the availability of the Dockmans. It is a set whose individual cards should have populations greater than the T206 Wagner and Plank cards. Just my opinion, but I would classify them as one of the most readily available of the small caramel cards, after the common cards of the E90-1 set, the E93 and E95 issues, and since the Black Swamp find, a good portion of the subjects in the E98 set.

Brian

[RCMcKenzie]

Brian, Dockman's are almost as scarce. I will concede that there are many more Dockman's that are not graded, but the pop charts are very similar. See SGC pops for T206 Plank, Doyle batting, Doyle non-differentiated etc. Both are around 31.. Not saying I wouldn't rather have a T206 Plank, but the numbers are the numbers.

[brianp-beme]

Being a collector of almost exclusively ungraded cards, and having collected before grading began, I base my opinion on long term observation of what I have seen available. I certainly can be wrong, or perhaps just noticed Dockmans more because of my interest in them.

One thing to always consider...the vast majority of T206 Wagner and Plank cards have been graded. There is a lot less incentive to grade a Dockman common card. Certainly mine will continue to fly below the radar...

Brian

[x2drich2000]

I agree with Brian on the scarcity of the set, I don't believe it is even close. As your stated, the problem with the pop reports is there are a lot of ungraded cards, especially lower grade commons. While I'm sure there are still a few ungraded planks, I'm pretty confident to saw there are significantly more ungraded dockmans of any specific player. If I had to guess, I would say at least 25% or more of any specific player has not been graded.

Another thing to consider, it is often feels like certain players are much more common than others. For example, compare the number of Schmidt cards, both graded and raw, on eBay to the number of Casey, Lobert, Bridwell, or McLean.

Regarding the number of cards in the set, Dockmans has been set at 40, crofts candy & cocoa has been considered 50, and Nadja has been 62 (50 same as crofts + 12 additional St Louis players). However, I'm not convinced the counts for blue crofts candy and Nadja are 100% accurate.

DJ

[RCMcKenzie]

I should not have included the word "scarcity" as it implies demand. People do not hold e92 Doyle's in families as heirlooms. Yes, Dockman's are readily available, but it is because no one wants to pay a lot of money for an e92 Dockman Doyle, even if only 100 of them exist.

Leon asked for more pre-war discussions, so I thought I'd drum one up. I think it's interesting that only 40 subjects exist, even though the back says 50 are there. That was my main point of the thread. For T215, 100 probably existed, but all were not found. For e92 Dockman, 10 were never printed. Why was that? That was my thought anyway...Rob

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Leon asked for more pre-war discussions, so I thought I'd drum one up. I think it's interesting that only 40 subjects exist, even though the back says 50 are there. That was my main point of the thread. For T215, 100 probably existed, but all were not found. For e92 Dockman, 10 were never printed. Why was that? That was my thought anyway...Rob

The 50 subjects on the back of Dockman cards are definitely a puzzler. There are a few vintage sets that didn't live up to their stated subject promises...right now dangit I can't think of them.

Brian

[Bliggity]

Right now on eBay there are 128 graded E92/Ds and 25 raw. Not quite a scientific analysis, but interesting. Love this set!

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

The 50 subjects on the back of Dockman cards are definitely a puzzler. There are a few vintage sets that didn't live up to their stated subject promises...right now dangit I can't think of them.

Brian

1939 Playball promised 250 and delivered 162...trying to think of more.

[brianp-beme]

I remembered another set...Diamond Stars state 240 cards on their backs, and only 108 were issued.

Brian

[triwak]

My Crawford

[h2oya311]

Cy Young (or at least that's who Dockman & Sons, American Caramel Co. and other companies that use this image claim that it is):