PSA giving straight grades from Qualifiers

[aloondilana]

I got a card that is a PSA 8 oc. What is a realistic grade I should receive asking for a straight #?

[bbcard1]

I always heard it was a one point deduction, but it wouldn't make it any more centered.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

I got a card that is a PSA 8 oc. What is a realistic grade I should receive asking for a straight #?

It's actually a 2 point deduction. If you send it in and ask for no qualifier you will get a straight 6 in return.

[slinger23]

I have always dropped it down 2 pts. So a PSA NM-MT 8 OC would be a PSA EX-MT 6.

pokerply80 beat me to the punch.

Exactly what he said!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

but it wouldn't make it any more centered.

LOL! So true!

That's the difference between a flip collector and a card collector though.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

I think you can do both depending on the card, the set or the strategy

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aloondilana

I got a card that is a PSA 8 oc. What is a realistic grade I should receive asking for a straight #?

It may depend on the centering.

[Fred]

I don't get the concept of removing qualifiers in lieu of a lower numeric grade UNLESS they follow the grading criteria for the lower grade. As indicated, the lower grade doesn't make it more centered. Lowering the grade to remove a qualifier brings up the actual grading criteria for the grade to be assigned (without the qualifier). According to PSA, an "8" has the following centering criteria:

Centering must be approximately 65/35 to 70/30 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse. DOES APPROXIMATELY MEAN IF YOU'RE A HUGE SUBMITTER YOU GET THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT?


In my book, if a card exhibits ALL qualities of an 8 but has poor centering then you can have a card that actually drops 3 full grades if it doesn't meet the grading criteria for a 5:

Centering must be 85/15 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the back. NOTE THAT THEY ACTUALLY INDICATE (OR BETTER) FOR THIS GRADE. WHY USE "APPROXIMATELY" INSTEAD OF "OR BETTER" WHEN CENTERING IS CONSIDERED FOR ANY GRADE?

So, what if a card has worse than 90/10 (front or back) centering? It appears that card would grade a max of "1" according to the PSA grading criteria. However they have given themselves some wiggle room with the following statement: The centering must be approximately 90/10 or better on the front and back.


The following is PSAs OC qualifier definition:

OC (Off Center):
When the centering of the card falls below the minimum standard for that grade will be designated "OC." PSA determines centering by comparing the measurements of the borders from left to right and top to bottom. The centering is designated as the percent of difference at the most off-center part of the card. A 5% leeway is given to the front centering minimum standards for cards which grade NM 7 or better. For example, a card that meets all of the other requirements for PSA MINT 9 and measures 60/40 off-center on the front automatically meets the PSA front centering standards for MINT 9. If a card meets all of the other requirements for PSA MINT 9 and measures 65/35 off-center on the front, it may be deemed to meet the PSA front centering standards for MINT 9 if the eye appeal of the card is good.

What they are saying is that they are subjective to the point of being the best judge of whether or not they are feeling generous that day.

It's all busslhit to me.....

[Griffins]

I was told if the card is an 8oc, for example, and has the centering for a grade lower they will give it the lower straight grade, but if the centering is at the standards of 2 grades or lower they will give it the higher grade with a qualifier.
The 2 grade drop is only for registry purposes, as Peter said removing the qualifier will result in the grade based on the centering, which could be more than 2 grades.
The only time I"ve seen the grade not being equal to the centering on an unqualified card is if there is a tilt- then they seem to decide if the eye appeal is worthy of a higher grade or a lower one, given the centering point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Right, if your 8 oc is 95 5 it isn't or shouldn't be going into a 6 holder. And I've seen some 8 ocs that looked for all the world to me like they could get a straight 7.

[begsu1013]

if it's a lower grade, it only drops one.

[Jobu]

At the other end of the spectrum, I was told that lower grades do not all have the option of getting a straight grade. For example, you cannot request that a PSA 1 MK just get a 1 because you can't drop the grade to make up for the lack of a qualifier.

[Gradedcardman]

I have a 1957 Topps Basketball Piontek. It came back a PSA 9OC. I asked for a straight grade and it came back a 5. They put it back in the 9OC for me. Rule of thumb I was always told before this was 2 number grades.

[xplainer]

Doesn't PSA have "half grades" now?
So why isn't a 9 OC actually be a 8.5?
It's better than a 8, and if not OC, would be a 9.

I don't deal with PSA so much, so I might be way off.

[Fred]

http://www.psacard.com/services/psagradingstandards/



Lot's of information on the PSA site regarding their grading criteria:


Half-Point Grades:

Cards that exhibit high-end qualities within each particular grade, between PSA Good 2 and PSA Mint 9, may achieve a half-point increase. While PSA graders will evaluate all of the attributes possessed by a card in order to determine if the card may be eligible, there will be a clear focus on centering.

Generally speaking, a card must exhibit centering that is 5-10% better, at minimum, than the lowest % allowed within a particular grade. It is important to note that there may be cases where the overall strength of the card, such as the quality of the corners and print, will give the card the edge it needs despite the fact that it may exhibit only marginal centering for the grade. This is especially true for cards that find themselves within the bottom half of the PSA 1-10 scale.

Finally, keep in mind that qualifiers will not apply to grades that achieve the half-point increase since, by definition, these cards have to exhibit high-end qualities within the grade in order to warrant consideration. For example, there will not be cards graded PSA NM-MT-Plus 8.5 OC or PSA EX-MT-Plus 6.5 PD since the half-point is reserved for high-end cards within each grade.

At this time, only cards qualify for half-point grades. Coins, pins, tickets and packs will not receive half-point grades.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by xplainer

Doesn't PSA have "half grades" now?
So why isn't a 9 OC actually be a 8.5?
It's better than a 8, and if not OC, would be a 9.

I don't deal with PSA so much, so I might be way off.

they do. not only that, I have never seen a half grade w/ a qualifier.

with that said, I always go straight grade. you are taking the possibility of the half grade off the table by going w/ qualifiers.

I don't like qualifiers on the flip anyway. so it's a win win

7(mk) is like "HEY THIS CARD HAS A MARK ON IT"

[insidethewrapper]

If a certain criteria is required for a certain grade then the card should have to meet that criteria. I don't believe in qualifiers such as (OC). For example, if it doesn't meet the standard center grading for an (8), then it isn't an (8).

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

If a certain criteria is required for a certain grade then the card should have to meet that criteria. I don't believe in qualifiers such as (OC). For example, if it doesn't meet the standard center grading for an (8), then it isn't an (8).

Exactly, it's a 7. Anyway, that is how I see it.
Not that it really matters.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

If a certain criteria is required for a certain grade then the card should have to meet that criteria. I don't believe in qualifiers such as (OC). For example, if it doesn't meet the standard center grading for an (8), then it isn't an (8).

I guess the argument against that is you could have a really pristine card that just happened to be cut off center and it shouldn't be grouped in with a card downgraded for wear. In this day and age of high res scans it seems less important anyhow.

[glynparson]

It only drops 2 grades 1 for lower in weighting for the set registry. For an actual grade on the flip it will lower to the standards reflected by the severity of the qualifier.

[irv]

Learning something new everyday I come on here.

I had no idea one could ask for a lower grade, or ask for anything. Just thought you sent the card in and it came back professionally graded with whatever numbers/letters remarks and that was it.

I assume most see the letters "OC" or "MK" as a bad thing and would much rather have an 8 OC graded as a straight 7 instead?

Is it the value you are worried about or typically do these straight number cards sell for more?

[swarmee]

Irv,
You've got it a little wrong. If you had an 8(OC), it most likely would be a 6 or below based on centering, so would get a 5 or 6 if you ask for "No Qualifiers" during the submission. If it had centering that met 7 standards, it would have come back a 7 instead of an 8(OC). Most MK qualifiers cannot be removed. It is always at the discretion of PSA to approve or disagree with your request.

[irv]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Irv,
You've got it a little wrong. If you had an 8(OC), it most likely would be a 6 or below based on centering, so would get a 5 or 6 if you ask for "No Qualifiers" during the submission. If it had centering that met 7 standards, it would have come back a 7 instead of an 8(OC). Most MK qualifiers cannot be removed. It is always at the discretion of PSA to approve or disagree with your request.

Thanks.

But going back to my original question, why do some ask for no qualifiers knowing full well they will get a 5 or 6 instead of an 8 OC?

Is the 6-7 worth more or is it more desirable than an 8 OC? I don't understand why some would ask for no qualifiers?

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by irv

Is the 6-7 worth more or is it more desirable than an 8 OC?

Often times yes, especially if it grades straight at only one grade lower. Plus, a straight grade will attract more buyers. Many buyers who would otherwise buy a straight 7 won't give the same card a second look if it's in a 9OC holder. Buying the holder, not the card...

[swarmee]

The standard answer is that a qualifier drops the value approximately 2 points. Some people just hate the qualifiers and don't want them at all. So most 8(OC)s will sell for near 6 prices. Could be more or less depending on the card and the amount of the defect.

And of course drastic miscuts in T206 (name on top and bottom, back upside down), despite dropping the card 1-2 points in the Set Registry value, make the card more desirable because of how good the quality control actually was back in that set and how many people are looking for oddball cards from that set.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Some people just hate the qualifiers and don't want them at all.

+1 for a number of reasons. It singles out and brings a flaw front and center. It's like a stat in a record book with an asterisk. It doesn't fit with any sort of grading consistency or common sense IMO, like a special group of flaws PSA made up and decided to note exclusively.

What's next, cards with back paper loss as PSA 8PL?, creases = PSA 4CR? Rounded corners = PSA 3RC? If the card is off-center or mis-cut, anyone can see that and judge it accordingly. Note it as a 6 then, I don't need an 8OC or 8MC to remind me the card is off-center.

What kills me is PSA will say (the folks at the show booths at least) you can submit requesting no qualifiers, they tell you it gets a two-point drop (fine, I'd rather that than qualifiers) - yet on my last submission, despite noting in size 48 font no qualifiers please - I got three back with qualifiers When I called and pointed out my submission notation and what I was told at the booth, they said they'd look into and get back to me - then they came back and said they'd re-slab two of them but one they will not. And here's the best part - I had to pay again to have that done despite my requesting in the first place. - Fah-que!

[irv]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

Often times yes, especially if it grades straight at only one grade lower. Plus, a straight grade will attract more buyers. Many buyers who would otherwise buy a straight 7 won't give the same card a second look if it's in a 9OC holder. Buying the holder, not the card...

Originally Posted by swarmee

The standard answer is that a qualifier drops the value approximately 2 points. Some people just hate the qualifiers and don't want them at all. So most 8(OC)s will sell for near 6 prices. Could be more or less depending on the card and the amount of the defect.

And of course drastic miscuts in T206 (name on top and bottom, back upside down), despite dropping the card 1-2 points in the Set Registry value, make the card more desirable because of how good the quality control actually was back in that set and how many people are looking for oddball cards from that set.

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

+1 for a number of reasons. It singles out and brings a flaw front and center. It's like a stat in a record book with an asterisk. It doesn't fit with any sort of grading consistency or common sense IMO, like a special group of flaws PSA made up and decided to note exclusively.

What's next, cards with back paper loss as PSA 8PL?, creases = PSA 4CR? Rounded corners = PSA 3RC? If the card is off-center or mis-cut, anyone can see that and judge it accordingly. Note it as a 6 then, I don't need an 8OC or 8MC to remind me the card is off-center.

What kills me is PSA will say (the folks at the show booths at least) you can submit requesting no qualifiers, they tell you it gets a two-point drop (fine, I'd rather that than qualifiers) - yet on my last submission, despite noting in size 48 font no qualifiers please - I got three back with qualifiers When I called and pointed out my submission notation and what I was told at the booth, they said they'd look into and get back to me - then they came back and said they'd re-slab two of them but one they will not. And here's the best part - I had to pay again to have that done despite my requesting in the first place. - Fah-que!

I would be pi**ed about that as well, Ed. Surprised, even after you brought it to their attention, they still made you pay twice.

Just my opinion, but grading by SGC is sounding better and better everyday.

Thanks for the info guys.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by irv

I would be pi**ed about that as well, Ed. Surprised, even after you brought it to their attention, they still made you pay twice.

Just my opinion, but grading by SGC is sounding better and better everyday.

Thanks for the info guys.

you sure about SGC?

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by irv

I would be pi**ed about that as well, Ed. Surprised, even after you brought it to their attention, they still made you pay twice.

Thanks, I didn't send them back/pay twice - I just let it go and cracked them out. Dismissed their response for the ridiculousness that is was.

[irv]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

you sure about SGC?

No, not 100% but the scales are leaning their way based on what I have gathered the short time I have been here.

[swarmee]

I think he's referring to the fact that the owner of SGC has been accused of systematic shill bidding in the other thread. Before sending your cards there, see if they stay in business...

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I think he's referring to the fact that the owner of SGC has been accused of systematic shill bidding in the other thread. Before sending your cards there, see if they stay in business...

If people don't send in their cards they won't stay in business and even with the new news they are 100X more legit now than PSA has ever been.

[irv]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I think he's referring to the fact that the owner of SGC has been accused of systematic shill bidding in the other thread. Before sending your cards there, see if they stay in business...

Figured as such, but from the reading I did, I seen PSA mentioned the majority of the time compared SGC?

Originally Posted by bnorth

If people don't send in their cards they won't stay in business and even with the new news they are 100X more legit now than PSA has ever been.

Kind of what I gathered as well.