you have to be kidding me

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Posted By: John(z28jd) 

this up and coming grading company made a big boo boo...something about this card doesnt look right(ill give you a hint,its not the grade)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1851273768

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

The grade is also wrong, since the corners are rounded.

bruce

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

i contacted grade-tech directly about this card,telling them that it was an obvious reprint and the seller was selling it as real because thats the way they labeled it.I pointed out everything that was wrong with the card to them so they have a idea next time what to look for and here is there response to me word for word:


Thank you for alerting us to this potential issue. Your alterness and vigilance is much appreciated. The seller has been contacted and the item has been withdrawn. The card is being returned to us and the matter will be investigated. For the record, it has not been identified as a reprint - it has been withdrawn for investigation. Should it be deemed to be a reprint passing under the guise of an original, the case will be turned over to the F.B.I. for processing.

We take the matter of counterfeiting very seriously as we state boldly on our website's terms page. We will hold accountable, those who engage in counterfeiting with respect to requests for Grade Tech services. Once again, thank you for your vigilance.

Best Regards,

Lloyd Glavocich
Vice President, Grade Tech Services, Inc

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

i wrote the company explaining to them that this was an obvious reprint,told them everything that was wrong with the card on why it couldnt be a real t206,and heres there response word for word......

Thank you for alerting us to this potential issue. Your alterness and vigilance is much appreciated. The seller has been contacted and the item has been withdrawn. The card is being returned to us and the matter will be investigated. For the record, it has not been identified as a reprint - it has been withdrawn for investigation. Should it be deemed to be a reprint passing under the guise of an original, the case will be turned over to the F.B.I. for processing.

We take the matter of counterfeiting very seriously as we state boldly on our website's terms page. We will hold accountable, those who engage in counterfeiting with respect to requests for Grade Tech services. Once again, thank you for your vigilance.

Best Regards,

Lloyd Glavocich
Vice President, Grade Tech Services, Inc

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Nice canned response. These Grade-Tech guys should be glad that the FBI doesn't prosecute grading incompetence or we'd be seeing their pictures on the post office wall.

Here I thought Scott's RSR was the "fastest growing grading company" - I guess his exorbitant standards have people turning elsewhere.

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

Im pretty sure that they are trying to say if you send them a card thats a reprint you have to tell them its a reprint.They dont do stuff like autheticating,they just grade the card.Maybe they should start a sister company that labels the card for them so they dont have to figure out what theyre grading because doing both is asking too much especially for a company thats growing as fast as them

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Posted By: Julian

John,

What I don't understand about grading companies that are not GAI, PSA or SGC, is the method and the experience in grading "vintage" cards. I'm sure that Lloyd is a good man, and he must have felt that grading cards was easy, especially with the grading of most recent issues, but where is the process in their evaluation of "vintage"(pre-1952) sports cards? Does he have anyone on his staff that has any experience with older cards? Doesn't he have a copy of "The Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards", or "Becketts" at the minimum? Doesn't someone employed by his company own or have anyone with examples of T206's or any other vintage issues that his company is going to encapsulate? What about a basic 10X's loop or a 250X's microscope, basic tools for authenticating, along with experience and familiarity with the cards? Food for thought when buying cards not encapsulated by the "Big Three" vintage card grading companies.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

Apart from this obvious error, anyone know anything about the background of this Grading Company, track record, reputation?

Here's their link:

http://www.grade-tech.com/

-dan

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Posted By: BcD

EOM

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Posted By: Leo

Why totally bash a new grading company ( Grade Tech )for just one error, after all I sent the card to them without any knowledge of it being a reprint!! Grade Tech called me this morning, made me aware of the situation then asked me to pull the auction "which I immediately did" "no harm done" In fact the card will be removed from it's holder then completely destroyed, that will be one less reprint for collectors to worry about.

Don't you think that Beckett, PSA, SGC and other grading services we see out there now have made many similar mistakes. If your answer is no, you should definitely start your own perfect grading service.

This whole t206 incident has been a great learning experience for me and more than likely for Grade Tech Grading as well. I hold absolutely nothing against Grade Tech Grading Service, after all none of this was their fault, all they did was grade the card for me.

I like what Grade Tech has to offer, their service is excellent, the holders are completely sealed and best of all I like the idea of them sending a CD rom report card for each and every card they grade.

I'd also like to thank several of my fellow Ebayer's who emailed me to let me know my card was a reprint. Thanks for the heads up, you've all been very helpful!

Sincerely,
Leo Langellier

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

It was the right thing to pull this card immediately and I commend you for doing this.

However, this is an obvious reprint and would not have been graded by anyone who was competent unless they were unscrupulous. PSA, SGC, Beckett do make mistakes but certainly not ones this blatant, because they'd lose their earned credibility if they did. SGC has a policy that Grade-Tech should follow: if you can't authenticate it, don't grade it.

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

If you think this is bashing you are defintely new to the board .Its great that they are getting the card back and taking care of it but they werent going about grading the right way.They shouldnt be grading anything that they dont know about.People learn by their mistakes and how they react to them dictates what kind of company they are and will be. I talked to them all day today about this and they seem like a sincere company that made an honest mistake,if it keeps happening then we know something is wrong.

The reason i posted it and everyone commented on it is because we are tired of new grading companies that grade anything and misrepresent worthless items as having value,which im not saying they did in this situation,but we still have to give everyone a heads up so they know what theyre getting into

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Posted By: Chuck Montoya

If you don't think that the other grading companies don't make Big Boo Boos then check this out!
Sorry I don't know how to create links here.
LC

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=113520

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Posted By: runscott

We have seen sellers tamper with scans of labels in the past, and we have also seen people create very decent forgeries of PSA labels.

--------------------------------------------
no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Sellers are responsible for the authenticity of their items, period. I'm disgusted by ignorance, the "I don't know what I'm selling, so bidders are on the hook" approach which is everywhere now, especially on eBay. Whether someone is a dealer or not, they cannot/should not profit by playing or being dumb. I fully expect that years from now, this kind of fraud will be virtually non-existent - when enough people get burned, reputable sellers will be the only sellers.

Showing examples of random PSA or SGC mistakes like the Paige card is easy; showing examples of fair, correct and consistent grading by Grade Tech, NASA, PRO, AAA, etc. is a trick that no one can pull off. These hucksters have no business grading cards.

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Posted By: Grade Tech Services, Inc.

Today, there was an unfortunate incident. A T-206 Christy Mathewson reprint card was posted on eBay stated to be the original. Several of the hobbyists in the vintage card community called this to our attention. We at Grade Tech immediately contacted the eBay auctioneer, alerting him to this issue and asking him to withdraw the card for further inspection, which he promptly did.

In conversations throughout the course of the day, we have come to realize that his listing was not with bad intent and was an honest error. In turn, we also recognize that we at Grade Tech were in error by allowing a reprint card to be graded and encapsulated as an original. We take full responsibility for this lapse of attention.

We are now in our second month of active grading. As any new company, we must learn from our shortcomings. We have spent the last year developing our product model and it is in our charter to “right size” the card grading industry through the use of computer technology. Our model itself, embodies honesty and innovation through it use of photographs, microscopic analysis and detailed synopsis in the form of a CD report card. We have invested both time and capital in building this paradigm and we are committed to its growth and integrity.

Grade Tech would like to use this incident as a springboard to an opportunity. Moving forward, we intend to apply the utmost attention to vintage card issues, as well as fortifying our existing staff with the creation of the a Vintage Card Specialist position. We are currently accepting inquiries at vintage_specialist@grade-tech.com for anyone that may be interested.

We apologize to the vintage card community for this unfortunate occurrence. As it has been noted in this forum, even the leading grading companies are not immune to similar error. This is not an excuse, nor is there one. We simply wish to be given the opportunity to rectify this mistake. We thank you in advance for your understanding and support.

Best Regards,

Joe Quagliano, President, Grade Tech Services, Inc.
Lloyd Glavocich, Vice President, Grade Tech Services, Inc.

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Posted By: Leo

Thank you for pointing out that PSA Paige error card, even the best make obvious mistakes.

That's right!!!! Beckett is now grading un-licensed 1997 Tiger Woods Cardwon rookie cards under their BCCG label, click on the link below or copy and past!! I guess us sellers are left with only 1 reputable grading company ( SGC )... Unless of course they happen to screw up big time which in that case we'll have to authenticate and grade our own cards!

I'm sorry, but I totally dis-agree with Mr Cornell's statment about reputable Ebay sellers which I happen to be. It's so much easier for someone to name call, point the finger and criticize everybody and everything after a mistake is made.

I couldn't help noticed how quick he attempted to smooth over the PSA blunder by pointing the finger at the seller.

However sellers who deal mostly in graded cards know that all grading services including the best are capable major errors, so why is it the seller's fault. So should we listen to people like Mr. Cornell and send our card strictly to PSA, SGC or BGS "I think not."

Now that Beckett is grading unlicensed cards should they be balck-balled as well, according to Mr. Cornell's SGC quote absolutely! "if you can't authenticate it, don't grade it."

Can a grading company like Beckett authenticate an un-licensed card, that's something to think about.

Here is the link to Tiger's cardwon rookie....Enjoy!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1850767186

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Posted By: Elliot

I'm not a big fan of the new grading companies, and think they will lack credibility and the expertise for a long time. I will say, though, that the Grade Tech response here, was completely appropriate, and they have handled the matter in a professional manner, in my opinion. I do wonder, though, about their ability to gain expertise on vintage cards.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Leo, Where did you get the Mathewson from?

Lee

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Posted By: Chuck Montoya

I really admire the loyalty that so many have to PSA but, they can be just as fallible as some of the others. If you read the whole thread concerning the Paige then you know that it was graded by PSA.Here is another example of a questionable PSA grade. The Fact is, that they make quite a few mistakes as do the others. I know that they have the best reputation right now and may very well enjoy that right for a long time to come.Again , as far as resale, no doubt, PSA all the way! But I believe that companies like Grade Tech are eager to move up the ranks as shown by their immediate post about the mistake they made.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1850966942
LC

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Leo-

I certainly didn't intend to call your integrity into question; your positive feedback speaks for itself. And I agree that what Beckett is doing with their grading offshoots is ethically questionable. I wouldn't use their services just for this reason.

My feeling is that another grading service had better start with serious credentials. I was hasty to lump Grade Tech in with AAA, PRO, and NASA - those companies are not just incompetent, they're dishonest -but that T206 is not a good beginning.

Bill

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Posted By: Albie O'Hanian

While they deserve credit for immediately fixing the error, the card itself was given a 6.5 for corners. That seems about 2.5 grades too high. So much for accurate grading.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

I want to thank you guys for coming to this bulletin board and offering a CLEAR RESPONSE to questions put forward here, and for making a true apology in the light of an honest mistake.

Unfortunately, there are many graders and sellers who never even answer questions, but instead cloud the issues brought forth with a lot of shouting, name-calling and smokescreen. I only hope that they can take the time to read what you have posted and learn from your integrity. And hopefully develop some of their own integrity in due time, which is seriously lacking now.

I am very pleased with your attitude and response, and I will be taking a very hard look at your service. I appreciate your candor and your willingness to take ownership for everything you do, even an ocacsional oversight.

My kindest regards.

-dan

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Posted By: David

Jeez, if everyone would just buy my book, we'd never have these types of problems (and I'd be stinking rich).

In all of life but especially in collectacting, a large portion of our knowledge is gained from our mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. The only problem is if you don't learn from them. This company made a goofy mistake, but if they learn from it, that's what life's all about. They've already publicly owned up to it which is great.

If from this board they merely learn not to grade blue Fro Joy Babe Ruths, they're already one up on PSA.

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Posted By: David

I wrote this some time ago, but newbies might find this brief article on the examining th T206s to be interesting. Then, again, they might not. The images are long gone, but the words are still there.

http://www.cycleback.com/vcmar012002.htm

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Posted By: Chuck Montoya

I want o thank you Dan for stepping up and acknowledging Grade Tech.Thanks as well to Elliot for his post. Being new here, it has been somewhat disheartening to watch grading company after grading company being shot down. Because there is so much experience here,I respect the views of the board however, it has become glaringly clear that some here would immediately jump to the conclusion that Grade Tech is dishonest.Their willingness to come here and address the situation shows that they are willing to have their integrity questioned and to rectify that which is wrong.Because of my lack of experience, I guess if some of the others have the reputation of not addressing errors, then they are certainly deserving of all the criticism that so often frequents this board. So ...... I am learning. I am learning that there is some openmindedness here and that maybe some of the other lesser known companies have at least been given the benefit of a doubt in the past. As in my earlier post,I would like to believe that the people in the grading business have a love for what they do. It must take at least more than an admiration for the hobby to scrutinize cards all day.I can only imagine that most of you have come to your opinions after being burned and that after too many bad experiences,all new grading companies are suspect. I do want to thank everyone for keeping from making some of the same mistakes that you have. Fortunately I haven't beened burned too awful bad and have your experience to thank for it.It is nice to see that at least some are willing to look at Grade Tech with different eyes instead of just brushing them aside with those that have already proven to be inferior. I guess I always kind of root for the underdog. I hope that Grade Tech turns out to be wonderful competition to the other Big 3. Competant competition can only be helpful to us as they will all hopefully strive to be the best.
LC

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Posted By: David

One last comment (Not bloody likely), most to all modern T206 reprints are easily identified in about 5 seconds with a $10 black light. This is because the modern cardstock usually contains brightly fluorescent substances that were not availble before WWII.

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

and if you enjoyed the above article,please make a donation to the cycleback website to keep it running. For the price of a coffee and danish you can make sure that davids website will be around for a long time.Plus the smile on his his dogs face is worth the price alone.


The above plug is totally the opinion of the writer and in no way represents the feelings of network 54,the vintage baseball card forum,Elliot,or that guy that sits in the chat room and doesnt say anything

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Posted By: David

The newsletter's went kaputz about a month and a half ago, so there's no need for donation, danish or otherwise. Not that I'm a zeolot and would turn refuse a danish.

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

dammit david! i knew that the website went "kaputz" but we could have split the donations! think man! do you how many danish we could have bought? think of all the possible flavors we couldve got


lets not get too far of topic now because i would still like to hear where Leo got the Mathewson card from like Lee asked

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Posted By: David

So you though I would split donations. That's rich.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

Chuck-

I echo your sentiments completely. I agree that this board frequently has heated discussions. Personally, I always try to maintain very well mannered and thoughtful posts, sometimes lengthy to make a point, and I will be in the middle of many an argument here, especially when a person is being dishonest and misrepresenting himself or his auctions or cards, etc.

I'll break out the neon to broadcast it, too. I will not stoop to petty bragging and name-calling and shouting, which happens with a select few persons. That is just distasteful. And, it's usually the response of someone who's cornered and has no reasonable or logical defense for what they are doing to other people. I will work toward a logical, well argued point, however.

Good, lively discussions and arguments are healthy and educational. They bring the truth to light about a lot of dishonest trading in the Vintage Card community. We need to know who the scoundrels and cheaters and liars are. And, as much, we need to know who the people are who are reputable, honorable, and represent integrity in trading.

I very much appreciate Grade Tech's position and their representation of themselves as willing to correct thier own stuff in an attempt at constant self-improvement. You didn't see them come in here calling people names and shouting at the rain. They were very professional, well-spoken and humble, and that is often built on integrity. I look forward to what they have to offer.

-dan

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Posted By: Grade Tech Services, Inc.

Grade Tech would like to thank the gentlemen in this forum, namely Dan, Elliot, Chuck, John and David for expressing goodwill and understanding for our position. This has been a very meaningful experience for us. You all have helped us learn from it.

Given the chance, Grade Tech is going to do some very special and exciting things for the hobby, especially the vintage sector. We have the gift of technology and some very innovative ideas for the future. Most importantly, we realize that the hobby isn't here for Grade Tech, we're here for the hobby. It's all of you that motivate us to excel.

We are always open to your input, both supportive and critical. We know that many folks are skeptical of new grading companies, which is a legitimate skepticism. We realize that it will take many of you quite a while to recognize Grade Tech's potential. We are committed to our service and we will always be working to provide the best products possible.

Please feel free to contact us at any time with suggestions and observations. Please tell us what we can do to help improve the hobby, as well as the card grading industry.

Thanks very much and Best Regards,

Joe Quagliano and Lloyd Glavocich
Grade Tech Services, Inc.

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Posted By: John Wojak

Hey, PSA grades reprints sometimes too. Those who followed the old Fullcount Board must remember Andy Baran's problem about a year or so ago, when he bought an M101-5 Sporting News Ruth rookie graded by PSA only to find out that the card was actually a reprint which they encapsulated and graded? Granted, those are some of the toughest reprints to ferret out, but when you are holding the card in your hand you can tell by the paper stock. So far I haven't seen SGC mistake a reprint for the real thing, but don't think this is a rookie mistake that the more established graders would never make.

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

Elliot talking about our 2 year anniversary(not mine and his,the board itself) got me reading some of the old posts and i came across this one,and i wondered,whatever happened to these guys!!
So i checked ebay and theres not a single card graded by them on there now.
If you check out their website,its still there,and you can tell they put some work into creating it.
I also noticed Dan Mathewson really liked them and where is he now too!?

Ahh the good ole days

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Posted By: Anonymous

These guys were brought out by another grading company. They did pretty good for themselves.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

items listed, I didn't bother to look for any more, if any. You guys seem to be mopping up pretty well!

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Posted By: BcD

their illusion of knowing how to grade cards?? And go ahead,I dare you..........tell us WHO "bought" them out!